Review: 'Through the Shadowlands’ describes Julie Rehmeyer's ME/CFS Odyssey
I should note at the outset that this review is based on an audio version of the galleys and the epilogue from the finished work. Julie Rehmeyer sent me the final version as a PDF, but for some reason my text to voice software (Kurzweil) had issues with it. I understand that it is...
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Very high b12 and folate

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by ModernLifeIsWar, May 3, 2016.

  1. ModernLifeIsWar

    ModernLifeIsWar

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    I know these tests, can be semi-useless, and even more so if using supplementation, but I was curious of where my levels were so I had the bloodwork done and I want to know if this could be an indication of a functional deficiency?

    I just started sublingual b12 supplemenation (10k mcg a day) about 1.5 weeks ago and methylfolate (2k mcg a day) a week ago. My bloodwork showed >2000 b12 levels, and 22.4 for folate. I realize the supplemenation could be raising these, but would it raise it so high so fast? Or could such high numbers after a very short supplemenation period be indication I was probably already high and have a functional deficiency? I know this isn't good information to work off of, but unfortunately I didn't think to test until I had already begun supplementing.

    I've been experiencing tingling, tremors, muscle spasms throughout my body as well as shortness of breath and bad anxiety which is what indicated to me b12 might be the problem initially, but I'm not sure if I'm on the right track or not. I ordered genetic testing from 23andme and am hoping that will clear this up some as I believe certain genetic mutations indicate poor conversion? (new here, still learning)
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2016
  2. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    High blood levels might indicate that you are not using/absorbing the vitamins though your starting supplementation before the test does confuse the issue a bit.

    The best way to work out if you have a functional deficiency is an organic acid test. Elevated MMA in urine shows that a B12 dependant enzyme is not functioning properly. Different tests use different markers for folate but it is the same principle. Elevated marker means poor functioning of the relevant folate dependant enzyme.

    Long before I started supplementing active folate and B12, I always had very high blood levels of folate and B12. I had only ever supplemented the small amount of folic acid and cyanocobalamin in a multivitamin, so this was a bit puzzling. It was only when I began to understand more about what this might mean (of course no doctor who ordered the tests thought anything of the high values) and did an OAT that the meaning really became clear. I had significant functional deficiency of both vitamins.

    With supplementation of the active vitamins my OAT quickly normalised. I no longer bother to measure blood levels - they are pretty meaningless.

    23andme analysis can be very helpful in revealing likely areas of weakness, see for example this post,( indeed the whole thread has lots of useful info) but won't directly solve this question for you.

    Try an OAT test.
     
  3. ModernLifeIsWar

    ModernLifeIsWar

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    Thanks for the detailed response. If you don't mind going into a little more detail, what exactly will an OAT test show me?
     
  4. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    I use the test from Great Plains Laboratory because they have better oxalate markers, but tests from other labs are fine for folate and B12 status.

    Here is a description of the test and an explanation from the lab director.
     
  5. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Well, I bet you have those side effects if you started out with 10000mcg of B12 :)
    Most people here need to start low (50-100mcg) and let their body and metabolism get used to it a little more gently.

    My 2c is to cut down the dosage to a level where you have zero side effects. Then you can see if you have benefits, which problems seem to improve (if any) and increase the dosage after a while.

    At the beginning you don't even know how much you need, maybe 10mg is already too much and we don't need to create more problems by overdoing supplements.

    good luck
     
  6. ModernLifeIsWar

    ModernLifeIsWar

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    Well the thing is, I'm here for a different reason that a lot of people. The symptoms I mentioned were BEFORE any supplemenation. I've been scouring the web doing research for weeks now, looking for an answer of what could possibly be causing my weird neurological issues. Despite not having CFS, I've found this board to be a wealth of knowledge in learning about possible deficiencies, especially regarding b12. I've felt some positive energy supplementing the b12 so far and a marked reduction in symptoms but not sure if I'm getting a lasting effect yet as it's still early to tell. The reason for the high dosing is to hopefully get my body where it needs to be asap and prevent (and hopefully reverse) neurological damage.

    However, I'm still unsure if b12 is the root of my issues. It does seems to be giving me positive results. I'm also making sure to take a quality multi and the active b complex from pure encapsulations as well as a few other things (riboflavin, vit d, mag, omega 3, etc). I'd say I'm having mild success with it, but yet to see lasting results. I suppose it's too early to tell though. I was just curious if it was normal to have such markedly high levels of b12 and folate after only brief (albeit high dose) supplemenation and if it could be an indication of anything (such as the potential that my levels were very well already high and therefore I may have a conversion issue from inactive forms of b12 and folate)?
     
    PeterPositive likes this.
  7. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    There are gut microbes that produce B12, folate, etc.

    The B12 is difficult for the host to utilize, and meanwhile, the elevated folate can become neurotoxic.

    It is not normal to have elevated serum folate, B12, etc.
     
  8. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    Have you been to a doctor to discuss your symptoms?

    The next time you have these levels tested, try stopping all supplements for one week, then have the test done when you have been fasting for 6 - 8 hours (folate being the most sensitive to fasting vs. non-fasting).
     
  9. Oci

    Oci Senior Member

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    Sorry to bother you @alicec but am wondering if you can tell me which are the markers for B12 and folate on the Great Plains OAT test?

    I think the methymalonic is for B12 - mine is .52 which is low in the range which is good.

    My B6 was on low side and I have added more.

    I don't see anything that tells me about my folate levels. My doc said that if it was not noted on the report then they were fine.

    However he still is suggesting that I supplement with B12 and folate!

    Arabinose was very high.
     
  10. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    See pyrimidine Metabolites - Folate Metabolism. A high uracil with normal or elevated thymine is considered to be a sign of a functional folate deficiency since the conversion is folate dependant.

    I'm never sure what to make of this marker. Only GPL use it as a marker of fungal overgrowth. I can find nothing about it in the literature - it seems to be something that GPL has researched and patented.

    Others use D arabinitol, which does have some evidence for being fungus-specific.
     
  11. Oci

    Oci Senior Member

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    Again many many thanks @alicec I have a low uracil - 0.43 which is below the reference range as is thymine at 0.12 which is only slightly below range.

    So, I really don't see that I need to be supplementing B12 and folate. I see too many problems resulting from the supplementation to want to do it unless indicated.

    As for yeast and oxalates...I think I still have an underlying problem. I will try the pancreatic enzymes.

    On the report (dated 10/19/2015) there is not a lot out of line as far as I can figure out except for:
    - very elevated oxalic (95 in range of 6.8 - 101)
    - somewhat low DHPPA (beneficial bacteria) at 0.06
    - B5 high but still in range
    - B6 low and I have increased supplementation.

    Thanks again!
     

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