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VDR test--results? Response to GcMAF?

Discussion in 'XMRV Testing, Treatment and Transmission' started by Sushi, Dec 28, 2010.

  1. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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  2. soulfeast

    soulfeast Senior Member

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    Is this info still correct? is VDR tag the same as VDR Bsm? I am so sorry.. having a hard time following this.

    I am VDRTag +- and VDR Fok -- according to yasko.

    My daughter is -- on both and has high vitamin D levels around 70. They were around 50 before we started supplementing about 2000 a day. She is 13.

    Abotu EBV.. any other thoughts on the IgG antibody measure (whatever it is) of 4000.. does that mean anything? This was Quest or Labcorp. I dont think it was a titer.. it was antibodies.. should I have a titer count instead?

    Thank you!

     
  3. garcia

    garcia Aristocrat Extraordinaire

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    According to my calculations [ see my blog post here: http://www.gcmaffed.com/2011/01/vdr-bsm.html ]:

    1. You are (with 95% probability) +/- or Bb for Bsm. I say with 95% probability for Bsm, since Bsm and Taq are the same in about 95% of people.
    2. Also you are -/- or FF for Fok.

    Your daughter is:
    1. +/+ or BB for Bsm with 95% probability.
    2. -/- or FF for Fok

    Disclaimer: All this is just my latest opinion based on the information I have to hand.
     
  4. soulfeast

    soulfeast Senior Member

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    That is very helpful. Thank you, garcia. I have (a few more than) one last question:

    If Therefore the ideal Bsm genotype for GcMAF, namely bb, corresponds to +/+ on a Yasko test for Bsm/Taq.

    What is the ideal genotype for Fok using yasko's labs? I am gathering -- but not sure.

    Then we have the possibility that EBV interfers with the vitamin D receptor and seemingly having high vitamin D is important?

    Could good vitamin D levels effect the expression of the retro virus??

    Thank you!
     
  5. garcia

    garcia Aristocrat Extraordinaire

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    According to my calculations for Fok, -/- on Yasko test corresponds to FF or ideal genotype for GcMAF.

    Sorry soulfest, I don't know the answer to those questions.
     
  6. serg1942

    serg1942 Senior Member

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    Hi Garcia,

    FANTASTIC posts on the VDR issue on your blog!!! Thanks for explaining it so well! I DO hope you are right... :)

    Sergio
     
  7. soulfeast

    soulfeast Senior Member

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    Apologizing for my ongoing ignornance.. I am lost in these threads.

    Is this correct?

    Bsm/Tag --/bb (most likely Yasko's ++) = high responder

    Fok ++/FF (most likely Yasko's --) = high responder

    Thank you for bearing with me..

     
  8. garcia

    garcia Aristocrat Extraordinaire

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    See here Soulfest:

    How to interpret a VDR test


    I'm a bit confused by your results, but if you are:
    Taq ++ on Yasko, then you are (with 95% certainty) bb = high responder
    Fok -- on Yasko, then you are FF = high responder

    At least to the best of my current understanding.
     
  9. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    I think its worth mentioning again that the world's foremost expert on GcMAF Yamamoto says it doesn't matter what SNPs one has on the Vitamin D receptor because the drug doesn't work in that way but works on the macrophages by activating them. I realise that KDM disagrees but at this stage who is to say who is right?
     
  10. Mark

    Mark Acting CEO

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    Hi bertiedog: just want to note that Yamamoto's point about Vitamin D receptor is not necessarily contradictory to KDM's findings. It could be that the SNPs on the VitD receptor define a 'subset' of ME, one of several genetic patterns that introduce vulnerabilities that permit ME, and that in the other patients who have other patterns, GcMAF is effective on them because their disease process works slightly differently.

    To put it another way: maybe GcMAF doesn't work for the people with SNPs on the VitD receptor because the underlying genetic problem for those patients is not quite the same as the underlying problem for the rest of people with ME - and that other aetiology is something that GcMAF can deal with. Just a vague hypothesis...

    While I'm on this thread, which I only dived into a couple of days ago (so I'm not really up to speed): I'm massively excited by this genetic stuff - and hugely impressed with Garcia's work on this, btw. I' hoping to spend some time crunching numbers from the spreadsheet over the weekend...but for now, a very quick observation...

    There's one of the statistically significant (black) columns where the variance is that NONE (0%) of the ME patients have the allele (I think it's the mutation that nobody has, but maybe the wild type) whereas a reasonable number of the general population does.

    That 0% seemed like a rather significant thing to me, so I glanced along the line of all the related genes, for which the correlation is not as statistically significant, and there's a whole row of 0%'s there too, some with a fair degree of significance.

    It seems quite striking to me if there really is a type of genetic variation that just doesn't show up in any ME patients at all. This is kind of the opposite of finding that we've all got a particular mutation - in this case, none of us have it, which might suggest that if we did, we'd be protected from ME...and if that were true it might point towards treatment options...

    Hoping to find lots more fascinating snippets in that data this weekend...it does immediately strike me that there's a whole raft of logical assumptions that people are going to make about this sort of analysis that just aren't necessarily so, and a whole load of logical possibilities that aren't immediately obvious - so I'm looking forward to getting stuck into that spreadsheet.

    Does anybody have any links to similar datasets for ME/CFS? I haven't seen the actual details/numbers/sequences that Dr Kerr identified, does anybody have any links to that data too? Would be nice to get as much of this sort of data as possible - this sort of stuff SO should be distributed as widely as possible...I want as many mathematicians' eyes as possible on this data, asap!...
     
  11. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    As I recall it, Kerr's work was on genexpression. That is not the same as mutations.

    If he did allele's I missed it.
     
  12. soulfeast

    soulfeast Senior Member

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    Thank you, garcia. My brain just does not process "technical" info well. I needed to see the basic formula to make sense of it. It seems bb/FF is the ideal and that most likely Yasko's genetics are opposite from Redlabs (or whatever lab is performing the test, sorry brain fog and tired)

    I am according to the formula you laid out:

    tag -+ yasko which would be +- Bb and moderate responder
    fok -- yasko which would/might be ++ FF and high responder

    My daughter

    tag -- yasko which would/might be ++ BB and low responder
    fok -- yasko which would/might be ++ FF and high responder

    She is 13 and does not have CFS but I see warning signs. Hopefully by the time she is older this will be all figured out. Still worry a bit for her.

    According to yasko, my daughter has no polymorphisms on these snps. Her vitamin D level is very good at 70. So a bit confused there unless a polymorphism is a good thing in this case. Or yasko has that wrong.



     
  13. garcia

    garcia Aristocrat Extraordinaire

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    Hi Soulfest,
    both you and your daughter are Fok -- according to Yasko. I believe Yasko is correct on Fok, so both you and your daughter are --, or FF, or high responder for Fok.
     
  14. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    Hi Mark

    Lets hope that you are correct and indeed they are both right!

    Do you know if there is any connection between the likelihood of the various SNPs on the Vit D receptor if one has a low vitamin D level even though one has been taking 3000 iu daily for 3 years and also sits out in the sun (UK) a far bit during Spring, Summer, Autumn? I have just had the results of my Vitamin D level come back at 27 with bottom of the range given as 32 and advice that a level of 50 should be aimed at.
     
  15. Mark

    Mark Acting CEO

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    I've started a new thread specifically for analysis of some SNP data which I found in a spreadsheet (linked to somewhere here I think, but I can't find it again now). Unfortunately I messed it up a bit because I misunderstood that the spreadsheet data related to the GcMAF trial directly...so I've cleaned up my first post a bit. My little bit of analysis seems sound though, and I've also tried to explain some of the basics of what SNPs are there in simple terms...so it may be of interest to some people on this thread - I'd like that thread to be a place where we can discuss SNP findings in general:

    http://forums.aboutmecfs.org/showthread.php?9702

    bertiedog: I'm not really the one to answer that question, but my guess would be there's no good data to confirm that connection. What I can say is that it does seem pretty clear that when levels of something are low when you know they ought to be high based on your lifestyle, there's something broken in terms of how you absorb and break down that stuff (or perhaps something meaning that it's constantly being used up at a rapid rate).

    Your question reminds me of my own B-vitamin test results. I came back very low for specific B vitamins, so I went to look up where they are present in food...and what I saw was basically a description of many of my favourite foods, which I tend to eat too much of, if anything! So it just doesn't make sense that this sort of thing can be dealt with by the conventional lifestyle changes...but of course that's all the advice we'll get from doctors who can't confirm what our diet and lifestyle are really like. Bottom line, I'd say there's clearly something blocked, and the methylation block model makes excellent sense to me...and treatment according to that model (via Dr Myhill) was extremely effective for me and for a friend of mine, so I personally think it's very probably along the right lines, at least.

    There seems to be quite a lot that points towards the Vitamin D receptor - I'm thinking now of the geographic variance of MS for example and the link to latitude; and the reappearance now of rickets in the UK, for example - so I think that deficiencies in that area are significant somehow, but more precisely than that, I wouldn't want to make any assumptions...
     
  16. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    Thanks for the reply Mark. I do know about the methylation protocol and have been following a very similar plan since 2007 but I use Thorne's Basic Nutrients which contains the active Bs plus the mixture of the different active folates. Also I take sublingual B12. The only think I don't take is the PS cos it can lower cortisol and that's the last thing I need.

    I guess your right about why things test so low when they shouldn't be. I think I should try a weekly sunbed treatment till I can sit outside again and get some sun. My immune system has been so weak this winter I am on my 3rd lot of antibiotics for a throat infection which just won't go away.
     
  17. ric

    ric

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    could Yasko RNAs for mutations Fok and/or Taq and/or supplements she advices to help?

    Hello everyone, I’m new here… I suffer from a severe CFS… I’m bedridden and with the years I have developed a lot of neurological/muscular/tendon/paresthesia /hearing symptoms. I barely can fend for myself. I don’t know if I really carry XRMV+ or other MLVs. But I suffer from some immune abnormalities as low NK count and very low activity, Hypogammaglobulinemia for IgG, shift Th1/th2, RNASE-L abnormality and so on... Saddly, in basis Yasko SNPs results I’m a bad responder to gcmaf. I’m Bsm/Taq +- and Fox ++ (Yasko nomenclature). Reading what is talking about genetics and the changes of success with this therapy, one idea come to my mind. I’m sure someone else has had this one before and it could absolutely have no sense but I would want to know your point of view about... So, could Yasko RNAs for Fok and/or Taq, and/or supplements she advices for these SNPs to help to bypass this issue?. … I’m apologize for my bad and poor command of English. Thank you very much!

    Ric.
     
  18. filfla4

    filfla4 Senior Member

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    I just got my results from KDM's clinic and I haven't yet had time to absorb/analyse everything however just copying and pasting this:

    GVDR
    GVDR- FOK1 - FOK1 Polymorphism - Moderate responder
    GVDR-BSM1 - BSM1 Polymorphism - High responder

    I fly to Brussels on Wed for my appointment on Thurs. His treatment includes GcMAF and Nexavir!! Hope to post more soonest.
     

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