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VDR Taq, Vitamin D deficient - confused

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Avalon, Oct 31, 2014.

  1. Avalon

    Avalon Senior Member

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    Just had my Nutreval results and it says that I am deficient in Vitamin D and ZINC, borderline deficient in B6, B12, Folic (I have been taking mb12, hb12, mfolate on and off for 2 months prior to test).


    I am confused with regard to VDR Taq, I am +/+ (AA), this effectively means that I do not have enough functioning receptors to process vitamin D. When I took vitamin D3 supplement (1000UI) a few years ago I seemed to be very sensitive after taking it for a few days and I didn't feel good on them. I retried at a 1/4 tablet, but after several days I felt worse. I am confused why that might be, I normally try to take one supplement at a time.
    Does VDR taq +/+ have something to do with is?
    I note that nutreval test does not include calcium levels, may be I am low in calcium?
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2014
  2. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I have VDR taq++ and have to take far more standard doses of D3 (at times Ive taken 50,000IU doses) and I have no issues at all taking D3.

    Im going to take a stab in the dark about what the situation could be which could be wrong .. maybe if you are very deficient in D its helping your immune system or something come on better and then that's trying to fight something??? making you feel worst. (another thou would need to clarify that could be the case).
     
  3. Avalon

    Avalon Senior Member

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    Ok, so may be as you say its something else, such an immune response, I do have insomnia and I have read vitamin D helps that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2014
  4. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    VDR Taq doesn't have much effect, unless it's mis-matched with VDR Bsm.
     
  5. UM MAN

    UM MAN Senior Member

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    Taq AA is not a mutation, it is the normal Snp.

     
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  6. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Look into pyroluria, that can cause a heme issue where the body excrets too much zinc and b6, other deficiencies can happen because of it. I don't know how much b12 and folate you were taking but unless it was a decent amount it would not do much, talking at least 1000mcg b12 a day, and well folate is standard 800mcg +, were you using methyl forms of both? Folic acid is crap and you don't want it in your system, the ideal thing is natural folate and methyl folate. Folic acid blocks normal methylation function. As for vitamin D almost 90% of the population is deficient. It definitely causes a de tox reaction because your immune system is dysregulated when its low, its a hormone for a whole host of bodily processes after all, not just a vitamin. When you start taking vitamin D the immune system becomes more online and starts fighting off whatever is inside.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2014
  7. liverock

    liverock Senior Member

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    @Martial
    800mg? Dont you mean 800mcg?
     
  8. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Oops yes, 800 mcg NOT mg my bad lol, just gonna edit it.
     
  9. Avalon

    Avalon Senior Member

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    @UN MAN Thank you so much for the video, absolutely fascinating! I did read about vitamin D a few years ago and trialed it then. I also went on to CPAP or more correctly Resmed S9 VPAP adapt. The issue then was that I was so sensitive to vitamin d3 (just like with mfolate, folinic acid now). I know my sleep is terrible my sleep study indicated 25 arousals an hour, with lots centrals apneas during REM sleep, twitching, leg movements it's amazing how close my story is Dr Stasha's. I knew my sleep was the anchor to all my ailments :fibromyalgia, mentally unrefreshed, fatigue, leg movements, itching.etc, but how to fix. I started two years ago to improve sleep hygiene, nasal dilators, aveotad, improvements in digestion to combat LPR/acid reflux, pillow edge etc, A couple of months ago I started methylation protocol in the hope it would improve my sleep, MB12 & hb12 initially helped, probably on reflection mB12 helped more than HB12, but have recently noticed an increase in fibromyalgia in arms and legs. ( I looked at B12 because my sister has B12 deficiency and has to have injections). My vitamin OH vitamin D level is 21 ng/mL.

    How do I take vitamin D3, I have split the tablet in 1/4 = 250mcg, but I know after a few days I will start to feel worse. Or maybe now that I taking Hydroxb12 this will help combat vitamin d3 sensitivity?
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2014
  10. Avalon

    Avalon Senior Member

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    @Valentijn , thank you !, my VDR bsm snp is -/-, why is it then highlighted by genetic genie as a problem, confused!
     
  11. Avalon

    Avalon Senior Member

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    Thanks for your reply, It's bazaar that nutreval has highlighted the very nutrients that are key to methylation!! I have to be careful when taking MB12, Hydroxyb12 and mfolate, folinic acid as my sleep deteriorates, my fibromyalgia get worse. I seem to be ok on just mb12, jury is out on HB12. I will read up on pyroluria but Vitamin D is very interesting though.
     
  12. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    VDR Bsm -/- and VDR Taq +/+ are basically the same thing. Yasko did or still does report the contradictory versions as being the "risky" version, even though it makes no sense at all. Genetic Genie just generates the list based on whatever Yasko says about the SNPs.

    But basically the research shows small effects in either direction. Nothing consistent, with the possible exception of people whose Taq and Bsm don't properly match up (such as +/+ and +/-).
     
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  13. Athene*

    Athene* Senior Member

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    Hi @Valentijn I realise this is an old thread, but would you by any chance have any links to research you mention showing 'small effects...nothing consistent'? My health care provider is puzzled by my situation.

    My snps are VDR TAQ ++ and BSM --

    My OAT test showed very low phosphoric, which I was told indicates low vitamin d.
    That makes sense because I have not been supplementing d3 and have been more or less housebound for years... besides there's very little sun where I live, even if I did get out.

    However my vitamin d3 serum test shows 135 nmol/l (54 ng/ml) which is unexpectedly high.

    Any thoughts you might have would be welcome.
     
  14. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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  15. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    My notes about this marker say low values are also due to low dietary intake of phosphates and to thyroid problems. I can't put my hand on the source of this info at the moment.

    The VDR SNPs wouldn't be influencing your vit D levels.

    Maybe you are one of those people who have very efficient vit D metabolism - be pleased that you can maintain decent levels without supplementation.
     
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  16. Athene*

    Athene* Senior Member

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    Thanks for this @Valentijn and @alicec

    Yes, I do have ongoing hypothyroidism, but good phosphate intake.

    Oddly my serum calcium has risen from barely in range to the top of the range over a few months even though I wasn't eating enough calcium (or supplementing with calcium). And yes, D3 has always been high despite almost no sun at all and no supplementation.

    Serum phosphorous (now called P04 In.Phospate) got low in range at the same time as above was happening, though it had been mid range.

    I'm wondering if I should ask for a parathyroid hormone test?
     
  17. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    Those changes do suggest an increase in PTH so a test might be worthwhile.

    Actually I didn't look closely at the vit D value you reported - that is high if you are not supplementing or going in the sun and hard to reconcile with high PTH.

    The other thought I had was that there could be two separate things going on.

    There is a phenomenon that seems to happen in at least some CFS/ME patients (and in those with autoimmune diseases and other inflammatory conditions) where the active form of vit D (1,25 diOH D or calcitriol) rises as a result of extra renal production, usually from cells of the immune system. This extra-renal production is not subject to the usual controls on vit D.

    I'd be asking for a 1,25 diOH D test also, just to make sure that is not ragingly high.

    I don't know enough to make any further suggestions. I hope you have a good doctor who will follow up. These results are definitely puzzling.

    Maybe someone else will have better insights.
     
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  18. Athene*

    Athene* Senior Member

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    Thanks for this @alicec I don't have a good doctor I'm afraid. From GP to consultant (of several types) there has been a series of refusals to do appropriate tests; misdiagnoses; and subsequent unnecessary medications, each of which made me worse. I had one great family doctor for a brief period, but he has now moved away.

    Re autoimmunity that you mention - I do have autoimmune pernicious anaemia (and folate metabolism problems) which is much improving since I've been using methyl b12 and methylfolate and riboflavin. I have coeliac disease too (autoimmune), gluten-free 6 years now. No thyroid antibodies, but very low t4 & t3 with high TSH, until it was treated.

    'This extra-renal production is not subject to the usual controls on vit D'. Do you by any chance know how that's fixed? Does it go away when inflammation comes down? I'm guessing it's nothing to do with a malfunctioning VDR.

    I will push for a 1.25 D OH test. Thanks so much for the suggestion. Any idea what the treatment would be if it too is shown to be unexpectedly high?

    (It will probably be difficult to persuade doc to test PTH but I will try. Of course, as you suggest, it would be low D3 along with elevated calcium and lowered phosphorous if it were hyperparathyroidism, but maybe my D3 would be low if the extra renal production or other cause wasn't there?...)
     
  19. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    In both cases trying to control the immune source - ie control inflammation.
     
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  20. Athene*

    Athene* Senior Member

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    Many thanks @alicec
    If you have any more suggestions re the snps I have, I'd be grateful. I am new to this.
    +/+ ACE, ACE C19329T
    +/+ AGT M235T/C4072T
    +/+ BHMT 08 C6457T
    +/+ CBS (A360A)
    +/+ DAO (2 ++ here, no letters, just rs numbers)
    +/+ FUT2 (3 ++ here, no letters, just rs numbers)
    +/+ MTHFR (3 ++ in this list, including A1298C)
    +/+ MTRR (A66G, A664A, 524C>T)
    +/+ Multiple MTR
    +/+ PEMT (no letters, rs7946)
    +/+ SOD2
    +/+ TCN2 C766G
    +/+ TH variants (2 ++ here)
    +/+ TPH2 (again, 2 +/+ under this heading, no names given, just rs numbers)
    +/+ VDR taq (as discussed)

    Diagnoses:
    pernicious anaemia (no response to hydroxocobalamin)
    hypothyroidism & fluctuating hypo adrenal issues (idiopathic).
    When no response to meds, was diagnosed 'Fibromyalgia'

    I use t3 & t4 for thyroid; Meb12; Adob12; riboflavin; B6; and need a lot of 5MTHF -15mg(milligrams), all daily. Other minerals & vitamins too. Gradual improvement, still mostly debilitated.

    Please do let me know if anything occurs to you.

    Much appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016

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