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Vasodilation all of the time, especially at night

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by drob31, Nov 25, 2014.

  1. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    Does anyone have increased vasodilation all of the time, or even just at night? One thing I've noticed is that the veins in my arm are popping out like I just did some intense exercise almost all the time but especially at night.

    I know cortisol is a vasoconstrictor, but it always seems to be high on my saliva tests. Is it possible that NO overrides this vasodilation?
     
  2. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    The same thing happens to me at night. It usually goes along with feeling very warm. I don't quite follow where you're going with your last sentence.
     
  3. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    I have the same problem. The vasodilation is pronounced all day but gets worse after meals and during hot temperatures. I then have to lie down otherwise i get a feeling that i may pass out any time.

    I use a very high dose hydroxyB12 by I.M. injection that mops up excess NO. I doubt NO is causing the vasodilation but maybe it's different in your case. Unlike you i'm quite low in cortisol.

    Perhaps you have a problem with histamine?
     
  4. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    I get this reaction from eating raw garlic. I love raw garlic but hate this reaction. Tc . X
     
  5. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    I mean that if my cortisol is high my veins should be narrow due to vasoconstriction. However the opposite happens which appears to be NO or nitric oxide mediated. So the NO would override the effects of cortisol.
     
  6. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    Good point, actually histamine is something I've recently been speculating. Maybe my use of benadryl is related. Also could this all be food allergy related? Ground beef makes me very sleepy. Maybe it has to do with the gut flora.
     
  7. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    I also wanted to mention I feel very warm as well. Do you think this is related to cortisol in any way?

    One hypothesis I had was that, cortisol was either increasing or lowering. The result of this was that the t3 had pooled in the blood was now available to the cells. Thyroid hormone has a vasodilating effect.

    High cortisol can cause cellular thyroid resistance, just like low cortisol can prevent t3 from making it into the cells. High or low cortisol could theorectically cause the same result: hypothyroid symptoms.

    Another possibility is histamines being generated by gut bacteria. But why it always happens at night is perplexing.
     
  8. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I have associated this symptom to high ammonia and it gets worse after 6PM and even worse from 8PM on. Now it's under control after my protocol of oral magnesium and bicarb baths.
    I even started to call it "6 o'clock blues".
     
  9. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    I often have prominent veins in my hands, but when I lift my arms the veins subside. So it seems to be to do with a passive process, where they dilate when more blood moves into the veins due to gravity.

    As an experiment I just tried bending and unbending my arm a few times, and the veins went down. Then when at rest, they came up again.
     
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  10. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    @MeSci it seems a different issue
     
  11. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    I had my ammonia levels checked and they're at the bottom of the range.
     
  12. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    @JaimeS has been tracking this symptoms and it does seem to point to some kind of acidosis. Salicylates? Oxalates?
     
  13. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    If it's acidosis the commonest one for us is lactic acid - from over-exertion. It's produced when we exceed our anaerobic threshold - moving from the efficient, aerobic way of producing chemical energy (ATP) to the inefficient, anaerobic method.
     
  14. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Yes, and I have been thinking if oxalates could cause a malfunctioning of the lactate dehydrogenase.
     
  15. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    Yeah. I've really been trying to put my finger on this one. (Ha. Ha. Ha....)

    Definitely worse in the PM in my experience as well; definitely worse in the heat, although that makes sense from a purely physics standpoint (most liquids, blood included, expand when they're heated). Definitely relieved (for an instant) by putting my hands over my head, as @MeSci says. We are probably all talking about the same thing.

    When bad, helped by high CoQ10, but I wouldn't read anything into that, per se. CoQ10 can help with any energy-related issue, so it doesn't exactly narrow the field.

    @Gondwanaland, you were talking about lactate dehydrogenase earlier, in the thread about reduced glycolysis. If we had low lactate dehydrogenase, we wouldn't break down lactate as easily?

    The lactic acid hypothesis is because one of the effects of metabolic acidosis is peripheral vasodilation; and when mine's pretty bad, I see the veins in my feet widening, too. I hate to use foregone conclusions, but I think it's widely accepted that many of us have some kind of lactic acid issue, so this isn't much of a leap.

    [Edit: And @drob31 , my cortisol is low-normal, so high cortisol may not be related in this case.]

    -J
     
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  16. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    Oh, and a friend of mine who (probably?) doesn't have ME experiences the same thing in the summer as well. I think it's a sign of debility, but perhaps not profound debility.

    -J
     
  17. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    My L-lactate and D-lactate levels came back high (from intestinal dysbiosis / fermentation), i wonder if that might cause acidosis and/or vasodilation.
     
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  18. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    What time of day is it low-normal? IIRC, some studies have shown pwME to have reverse cortisol secretion, so that it is low in the morning, when it should be high, and high in the evening when it should be low.
     
  19. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I don't know about its functioning, but the chart that I llinked suggests that when there is too much oxalates (either from food or endogenous) the enzyme has its function diverted by them. I have had the bulging veins frequently and it wasn't from exertion.
     
  20. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    Vasodilation at night could be due to activation of the parasympathetic nervous system, something that happens to healthy people as well. Even though the article below, written by Jay S. Cohen, M.D., is discussing a disorder called erythromelalgia (EM), the background material discussing the biorhythms of vasoconstriction and vasodilation is helpful to understanding how everyone is affected by diurnal rhythms.

    http://www.medicationsense.com/articles/2013/biorhythms.php

     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2015
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