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Van der Meer strikes again

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by Rivotril, May 7, 2010.

  1. Rivotril

    Rivotril Senior Member

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    This article was placed in the Dutch regional newspaper "De Gelderlander", and I have not yet seen it on this forum, if otherwise, delete please : )
    Again a "one-source story" with some of the same wrong facts as in The Volkskrant article, and some new rubbish
    I haven't had a chance to translate it, maybe later...till then, google translator will hopefully do the job :)

    Ergernis over omstreden vermoeidheidstest

    donderdag 06 mei 2010 | 08:07 | Laatst bijgewerkt op: donderdag 06 mei 2010 | 08:36

    NIJMEGEN - Het Radboudziekenhuis veroordeelt het besluit van het Whittemore Peterson Institute in Reno (VS) om een vooralsnog omstreden test op het moeheidsvirus alvast aan te bieden. Volgens professor Interne Geneeskunde Jos van der Meer van het UMC St Radboud woedt nog volop de discussie of de test (kosten: 650 euro) betrouwbaar is.
    Zelf is hij niet overtuigd van het bestaan van het moeheidsvirus. „Bied je nu zo’n test aan, dan ben je verkeerd bezig. Het marktdenken domineert ten koste van de wetenschappelijke betrouwbaarheid.”

    Het Nijmeegse ziekenhuis is sinds vorig jaar in een felle polemiek verwikkeld rondom de vraag of het chronische vermoeidheidssyndroom (cvs) wordt veroorzaakt door een virus. Het Amerikaanse instituut pretendeerde in oktober bewijs hiervoor te hebben gevonden met een bloedtest waarmee het virus kan worden aangetoond. Dit zou worden aangetroffen bij twee derde van de patinten.

    Nijmeegse onderzoekers hebben met dezelfde test gn ziekteverwekker kunnen opsporen. Volgens de Nijmeegse wetenschappers is het Amerikaanse laboratorium waarschijnlijk vervuild. „Bij dit soort testen komt dat vaker voor, het is een bekend probleem.”

    De twee kampen zijn beide van mening, alleen zelf de test op correcte wijze uit te voeren.
    http://www.gelderlander.nl/voorpagina/nijmegen/6648235/Ergernis-over-omstreden-vermoeidheidstest.ece?start=1&sort=asc#reakties
  2. Rivotril

    Rivotril Senior Member

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    Anger over controversial fatigue test

    Thursday, May 6, 2010 | 8:07 | Last updated: Thursday, May 6, 2010 | 8:36

    NIJMEGEN - The Radboud Hospital condemns the decision of the Whittemore Peterson Institute in Reno (USA) to test a controversial yet on weariness virus already offering. According to Professor of Internal Medicine Jos van der Meer of the UMC St Radboud rages still plenty of discussion about whether the test (cost: 650 euros) is reliable.
    He himself is not convinced of the existence of the fatigue virus. "Bid now to such a test, you're doing wrong. The market-dominating at the expense of scientific reliability. "

    The Nijmegen hospital since last year embroiled in a fierce controversy about whether chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) is caused by a virus. The American Institute in October pretended to have found evidence for a blood test that the virus can be demonstrated. This would be found in two thirds of patients.

    Nijmegen researchers with the same test, a pathogen detection. According to the Nijmegen laboratory scientists, the U.S. probably contaminated. "This kind of testing that is more common, it's a known problem."

    The two camps are both consider themselves the only test correct manner.
  3. gu3vara

    gu3vara Senior Member

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    I bet WPI will become frighten f him oand stop EVERYTHING ! :p
  4. V99

    V99 *****

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    He's a twit
  5. usedtobeperkytina

    usedtobeperkytina Senior Member

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    WPI, please call them and demand a correction or insist they put in your letter to the editor. Lies must be corrected. This is not politics, this is harmful misrepresentation that will possibly affect your efforts and therefore, millions of CFS sufferers.

    No need to lodge any counter attacks. Just set the record straight.

    Tina
  6. fred

    fred The game is afoot

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  7. Cookie Monster

    Cookie Monster

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    :Sign Good one:
  8. leaves

    leaves Senior Member

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    Aren't these unsubstantiated claims and accusations illegal? Cant we SUE this W*NKER?
    *recomposing...*
    Sorry for losing my temper, That guy makes me real angry.
  9. Rivotril

    Rivotril Senior Member

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    Hopefully this version will do well....

    Anger over controversial fatigue test

    Thursday, May 6, 2010 | 8:07 | Last updated: Thursday, May 6, 2010 | 8:36

    NIJMEGEN - The Radboud Hospital condemns the decision of the Whittemore Peterson Institute in Reno (USA) for offering a presently controversial test to detect a fatgue virus (XMRV) . According to Professor of Internal Medicine Jos van der Meer of the UMC St Radboud there still rages plenty of discussion about whether the test (cost: 650 euros) is reliable.
    He himself is not convinced of the existence of the fatigue virus. "when you're offering such a test at this moment, you're doing wrong. The marketbased-thinking then dominates at the expense of scientific reliability. "

    The Nijmegen hospital since last year embroiled in a fierce controversy about whether chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) is caused by a virus. The American Institute in October pretended to have found evidence for a blood test with which the virus can be verified. This would be found in two thirds of patients.

    Nijmegen researchers found no pathogenic agent with the same test. According to the Nijmegen laboratory scientists, the U.S. laboratory is probably contaminated. "In this kind of testing this is common, it's a known problem."

    The two camps both hold the view that they personally did run the test in a correct way
  10. VillageLife

    VillageLife Senior Member

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    I thought it was the WPI, that was working with the CDC and various agencies, as far as I know he isn't working with these agencies...this must mean something!
  11. Rivotril

    Rivotril Senior Member

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    almost everything he says is proven incorrect already, even the price of the test (€650,- which is over $ 800) is incorrect.

    The "region-bound" argument is gone, only contamination-bullshit is left...
    Contamination in three different labs?
    Contamination also in antibody-testing ??? (which is not possible, according to Goff/Raccaniello, see ”http://forums.aboutmecfs.org/content.php?98-Virologists-on-XMRV,

    “It’s very compelling if you do have seropositivity (antibody result) because then it’s not a cause of contamination"

    And again the argument that they used same test as WPI! (it is stated a thousand times before that WPI ran FOUR tests and Nijmegen only used an (insensitive) PCR test.

    This has nothing to do with science or finding the truth anymore...
  12. omerbasket

    omerbasket Senior Member

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    Perhaps it's a translation mistake - but if not - isn't it a lie? "same test"? I mean the whole story is that they didn't test it as they should have.

    Besides, I want to say something: In Hebrew we use a saying that comes from Aramic. It's verbal explanation is: When there is a small coin in a big jar, and you shake the jar, the small coin makes a lot of noise. It is said in order to describe a situation in which people hear all the time about a person/something that worth nothing, but makes a lot of noise.
    And I think the story with Van der Meer is the story of a small coin in a big jar: Who the hell is he? I mean, from all the 3 bad studies that were done in europe regarding XMRV in ME/CFS patients - his was the worst (much less cohorts, worse criteria [Oxford] etc.). He's not a virologist (and definitely not a retrovirologist). I think we don't hear much from Kerr now and even from Wessely, but that Van der Meer still wants to make a lot of noise. Who is he? I mean, I think I'd believe Britney Spears more if she had something to say about XMRV...
  13. fred

    fred The game is afoot

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    I must plagiarise that saying in future posts.

    [​IMG]
  14. Rivotril

    Rivotril Senior Member

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    Originally Posted by Rivotril
    Nijmegen researchers found no pathogenic agent with the same test.

    It is not a translation mistake, I'm Dutch so I'm 100% sure about this passage. I underlined it because it is too crazy for words that Van der Meer can go on with publishing such lies in a major newspaper in The Netherlands, with journalists just writing down the bullshit he tells them without checking anything from another source.
    But I can understand your doubt, because it's pretty unbelievable that such complete lies are published as facts in newspapers, and it's also unbelievable how ignorant the (dutch) newspaper-journalists are...they have also done a worthless job again.
  15. anciendaze

    anciendaze Senior Member

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    Meer words

    Both PCR and antibody tests can be contaminated, but not by the same thing. The PCR they are doing can be contaminated by DNA, the antibody tests can be contaminated by antibodies produced by infected organisms. Typically, nested PCR has higher specificity and lower sensitivity. When different methods show consistent results, within the bounds of those differences, it is strong evidence the results are real. Even if you postulate that two kinds of contamination take place, you still have the problem that the conditions producing a particular level of contamination are very different in the two cases.

    The letter Dr. Mikovits has just released shows that she took the extraordinary measure of keeping the room where testing took place "virgin" in the sense that none of the usual causes of contamination had ever entered the room. It also reveals that every sample was accompanied by a negative control taken from human blood. None of the controls were found contaminated.

    If I correctly recall the paper where Gow did the PCR, they used water as a negative control. This is not going to allow any contaminant to reproduce. From the standpoint of eliminating the risk of contamination, it is virtually worthless. The Nijmegen group did better laboratory work, but, by the estimates I've made, they simply did not have the sensitivity to detect XMRV at the levels reported by Mikovits.

    Conducting a controversy through the public press, when you have had an opportunity to resolve questions with a cooperating laboratory which supplied you with reagents and test samples speaks for itself.

    There are other methods of demonstrating contamination, which have not been addressed. Dr. Mikovits has disclosed her methods, presumably at the cost of commercial advantage. The original test by CD has been withdrawn, pending cheaper and easier clinical tests, though Van der Meer seems unaware of this. It is time to put up or shut up.

    BTW: Anyone who escapes from psychiatric therapy without spending $650 of someone's money must not have had a problem. This money goes directly to therapists, without overhead for running a laboratory. Does this cause a conflict of interest?
  16. omerbasket

    omerbasket Senior Member

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    Is it possible to e-mail this newspaper and ask them to interview the WPI and let them contradict Van der Meer's words?

    And Fred - Please, use it as much as you'd like :Retro smile:
  17. Rivotril

    Rivotril Senior Member

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    http://www.wegener.nl/contact/index.html

    De Gelderlander
    redactie@gelderlander.nl

    This is the e-mail adress they use for press releases, which fits best in this case, out of the available adresses
    already many people have placed the same comments we mentioned here on the site of "De Gelderlander" as you can see when you go to the link in post #1

    But it's a good thing to also e-mail them, I think..
    Not just me but more of us maybe, so they can see that this misinformation is noticed not just in the Netherlands, but all over the world
  18. heleen

    heleen

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    Van der Meer and his marionet Van Kuppenveld will have a hard time one day.
    On the moment they do not know how to wipe their path clean. But we have another
    retrovir. (Boucher) who is working with Coffin on the moment. He is a HIV expert.
    So I wonder how long Van der Meer will survive. He is in the field much too long allready.
  19. Dr. Yes

    Dr. Yes Shame on You

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    You can have this one too...

    "Empty barrels make the most Noise"


    guniz4..jpg

    I think this ^ belongs to Dr. van der Meer..



  20. pollycbr125

    pollycbr125 Senior Member

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    yorkshire
    aw bless his little cotton socks :Sign Good one:

    must remember to use this pic in any future correspondance with wessley and co , so true what they say a face can speak a thousand words ;)

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