A New Decade of ME Research: The 11th Invest in ME International ME Conference 2016
Mark Berry presents the first in a series of articles on the 11th Invest in ME International ME Conference in London ...
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Vaccine vs exposure

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by kisekishiawase, Dec 30, 2017.

  1. kisekishiawase

    kisekishiawase sad

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    Ive read a lot that vaccine is a red flag. Or a big no no. If i can i dont want any chemical toxic into my system of course cause im sensitive but what confused me is that some vaccine could be useful to shield people to illness that easily be transmitted like hepatitis, etc. Which is deadly. (sweat, saliva, by air, etc. Dental work, restaurant, public place thing that we touch, social life/events, etc) Especially in some country and when theres an outbreak of some virus or people who want to go abroad.

    Its hard choice. But the risk is catching the illness/virus spreading around.
    Is vaccine a big no no generally? And arent there people who are ok with it?
    Or maybe some info how to reduce the bad effect or know which person will catch issue with vaccine.

    (I ask because theres a deadly virus outbreak in my place many has died. so people get vaccine but im worried. Also there are some illness that easily transmitted)
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
  2. keenly

    keenly Senior Member

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    We are not vulnerable to catching illness due to not having poisons injected into us. The human body works fine without vaccines.

    My gran had the pneumonia vaccine. 6 months later she died of pneumonia in hospital.

    Stop buying into fear mongering about virus outbreaks. Protect your immune system.
     
  3. kisekishiawase

    kisekishiawase sad

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    Im not buying into fear just stating the fact. Theres a virus outbreak in my place and many has died im not lying.

    Every place/country are also different. (There are some place/country which pose more risk due to virus outbreak)

    Virus not transmitted only by injection. I was talking about sweat, saliva, by air, etc. Dental work, restaurant, social life/events, public place thing that we touch, etc.
    In dental work they cant sterilize the suction and drill.

    There are so many more example.

    And im talking about generally not specifically to 1 or 2 people.

     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  4. junkcrap50

    junkcrap50 Senior Member

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    Vaccines are not special antidotes to viruses, where once you have it you're cured and immune from it. You need to have a functioning and healthy immune system. They contain 2 parts: live or dead viruses and the adjuvants. The adjuvant is in there to provoke your immune system and make it flair up and go crazy. That's why the adjuvants are so toxic and bad for you. Once it goes crazy, it sees the live/dead virus provided and makes

    The pneumonia and shingle vaccine, mostly marketed to the elderly, are useless or even dangerous. The elderly have a weakened immune system and cannot provide the provoked response the vaccine needs. So often, you're just injecting them with viruses.
     
  5. junkcrap50

    junkcrap50 Senior Member

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    As to whether or not you should get a vaccine for a viral epidemic, it depends on the virus spreading and the type and mechanism of the vaccine. If it's a terrible and deadly virus, then I would lean towards immunization. Regardless, boosting the immune system is most important.
     
  6. JES

    JES Senior Member

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    Tell that to all the kids who died from smallpox or polio. 30% of the kids infected with smallpox and a total of around 300-500 million died in the 20th century, so it sounds like they were very much vulnerable. Luckily we don't have to deal with that today thanks to vaccines.
     
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  7. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    I am a measles encephalitis survivor. Had a vaccine been available when I was a child I might not have ME. When any pathogen gets into the brain, or heart, or eyes, it can have devastating consquences.

    Vaccines are tricky. There is no absolute answer. Its about risk management, not certainty. Vaccines do cause harm, but also prevent death, disability and suffering.

    Hepatitis B vaccine has a bad record with ME. In theory, though I am unaware of any substantiating research, TB vaccine should help. If an outbreak of a lethal virus or other pathogen is going around then a vaccine should at least be considered.

    One of the things most are not aware of with vaccines is that they are specific to particular strains. With the flu vaccine for example, each year they combine several vaccines for the most common strains of virus that year. Next year the vaccines will be for a different combination. Immunity is raised over time by getting vaccinated by more and more different strains.

    Old people often do not respond to vaccines. Their immune system is sometimes sufficiently compromised that they do not raise an antibody response. However this is also a risk versus benefit issue. Some may indeed benefit from vaccines.

    There is also the issue that the more people who are vaccinated the lower the population burden of a pathogen will be. This is called herd immunity. The idea is that those who cannot or should not be vaccinated, or who have not done it yet, have lower risk because those around them have been vaccinated.

    The two medical scourges that vaccines vanquished last century were smallpox, as already mentioned, and polio.

    On the flip side there are many cases, as in absolute numbers, of patients who are made worse by vaccines, and especially specific batches of vaccines, usually new vaccines that have had inadequate testing because they have been rushed out. This is absolute numbers, the relative numbers of those harmed versus those helped is the more important figure though, and its rarely compiled. In general its claimed that the risk ratio is better with vaccination than not being vaccinated.

    However with ME I suspect some vaccines are worse than others, and because I live in isolation I rarely catch anything now. So I do not get vaccinated myself. Were I at higher risk, or there was an outbreak, I would definitely consider vaccination.
     
  8. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    I cannot have vaccines b/c of getting Rituximab and am not supposed to be in close contact w/anyone who recently had the flu shot, flu mist, shingles vaccine, or chicken pox vaccine. Even prior to Ritux, my doctor advised me against vaccines b/c my immune system abnormal, b/c of the neurotoxic reaction I had to Levaquin, and b/c of allergic risk. So for me, vaccines are out. And the Gardisil vaccine is giving young girls an ME/CFS type illness and is very dangerous.
     
  9. *GG*

    *GG* Senior Member

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    I had weird symptoms after getting a flu shot, was perfectly healthy before. That winter after getting the shot, I would go home 1 day a week and crash out/sleep for 12 hours. Which I only did before that perhaps if had been drinking a lot the night before, and was crashed out after drinking so much!

    Not sure it doesn't have something to do with me catching ME/CFIDS/CFS.

    GG
     
  10. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    This is because a compromised immune system might be unable to stop infection from someone with a live vaccine. Such live vaccines contain weakened (attenuated) virus etc., so a normal immune system can typically handle them. A compromised immune system is at more risk, and B cell depletion would be a case in point.
     
  11. keenly

    keenly Senior Member

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    And vaccines ended that? WOW.
     
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  12. keenly

    keenly Senior Member

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    Well said. I agree 100%.
     
  13. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    What kind of virus caused the outbreak?
     
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  14. andyguitar

    andyguitar Senior Member

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    It's a really difficult choice. Vaccine or no vaccine. I would go for one IF the virus was likley to cause death or very serious health problems. Of course this raises the question of how do you measure the risk? The only thing I had which could have been (probably) prevented by a vaccine was whooping cough. I still remember it even though it was a very long time ago. It was horrible. But that does'nt make me think vaccines for things like that are necessary. I suspect that the reason some societies go for vaccination for so many things is simply a way of (hopefully) cutting the cost of looking after those who would otherwise get an infection. It's more about money than health in my opinion. But then maybe I am just a cynic.
     
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  15. JES

    JES Senior Member

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    Yes, large scale vaccination in the 19th and early 20th century was responsible for eradicating smallpox completely. Same is happening with polio, it is estimated that polio will be globally eradicated by 2018 thanks to vaccination.

    We tend to forget these things because these diseases are no longer around, but many worldwide epidemics would return quickly if all vaccinations were stopped.
     
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  16. andyguitar

    andyguitar Senior Member

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    Better public health provision also helped to reduce infectious disease during the late 19th and 20th century.
     
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  17. kisekishiawase

    kisekishiawase sad

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    Diphtheria. It was only by december. Befor that theres no problem. They said the caused was a few people refuse vaccinated children(majority of children get vaccine/is a must) so it caused an outbreak and so now adult have to get revaccinated TD vaccine.
    I dont know if its ok. Since im sensitive. But its hard choice. Im also worried about the virus around.
    Im also never had chicken pox, it worries me.
    How to know if you will get bad reaction or abnormal immune? If its normal then its possible will cause less problem?

    I also dont want to get vaccine and avoid other chemicals but i cant live in a safe bubble :(

    I just had a crash on october, november and then this happens
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  18. kisekishiawase

    kisekishiawase sad

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    Do you know if TD vaccines for adult are ok?
    It says it contains dead virus.
     
  19. andyguitar

    andyguitar Senior Member

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    You are in a difficult situation and have my sympathy. One thing you need to consider is: have you reacted badly to vaccine in the past? Also is the outbreak getting worse or better?
     
  20. kisekishiawase

    kisekishiawase sad

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    I keep postpone it but i dont know :(i see the news and its still around

    I have never had vaccine before aside when i was a child. I had 1 hepatitis vaccine as an adult but forgot which type.
    it was after i get sick couple of years ago. (before i know about vaccine issue)but my condition goes up and down over the time and i forgot exactly how/when it was. so im not sure if it caused any problem or not.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018

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