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Using essential aminos for OI ?

Discussion in 'Problems Standing: Orthostatic Intolerance; POTS' started by xchocoholic, Dec 4, 2009.

  1. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    It's been 2 months since I was here so I wanted to update this ...

    These are still doing the same thing for me as they were when I first started taking 2 of them at a time. My heart doesn't pound when I first lay down. I don't feel like blood is rushing into my head when I first lay down. And I don't feel the need to lay down as often ... However, I still feel better and can think more clearly if I lay down flat every few hours for an hour.

    I still take 2 every few hours, up to 6 - 8 a day. And the 2 that I take first thing in the am are the most important. Evidently my body needs these right away when I wake up. A few bites of an orange and eating breakfast helps me in the am too though.

    I think my stamina has improved on these too. I've had company off and on since November and managed to keep up with them better than I ever have. I still need to rest during the day but I see an improvement over how I felt just 6 months ago.

    My PEM has lessened in severity too ... I used to be laid up on the couch like a total zombie for the first day and then on day 2 and 3 I was just too tired to do anything but fix quick meals and eat. Now the first day is just a day of mindlessly watching tv on the couch. And day 2 and 3 I feel energized off and on but get run down very quickly ... By day 4, I'm ready to go again ... Um, this is day 3 for me but I need to get moving anyways ...

    TC ... Marcia
  2. Athene

    Athene Never give up

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    Just wanted to add that, like xchocoholic, I am still getting a lot of benefit from aminos. I don't know which ones specifically, I take everything. I guess my body knows what to do with them!
  3. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Thanks Athene,

    good to hear that you're still seeing an improvement with these. When you said that you take all of the aminos did you mean the essential aminos only ? Based on what I've read I think this is the best way to go ... I read that glycine, in particular, can interfere with the Krebs cycle. I may have that link in this thread ... Based on all the components at work in the Krebs cycle, I'm not planning on taking any non essential aminos at this point.

    I have a theory on how the body works ... ;) ok, maybe I read this somewhere and just forgot too ... If our bodies get what it needs from an outside source then it won't see the need to produce on it's own. It gets lazy so to speak. So if we give our bodies non essential aminos it won't see the need to convert essentials to non essentials. I "assume" that our bodies lose out on other nutrients, peptides, enzymes, etc when it's not working to convert these.

    Granted there are reasons that a person's body wouldn't convert an essential amino to a non essential amino but I'm betting that by providing our bodies the core nutrients it needs in the form of foods and supplements sooner or later it will remember how to function ... :victory:

    I'm impatient when it comes to having more energy though so, I've experimented some with additional glycine, DLPA and tyrosine but only saw any improvement in my energy from taking tyrosine. Tyrosine is converted from DLPA and works to support the thyroid. I'm still playing with these ...

    I'll keep you all updated on how this is working ... tc ... Marcia
  4. Athene

    Athene Never give up

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    Hiya!
    Interesting theory...I wonder if it has been/could be scientifically tested???
    I am taking the essential aminos as, like you, I figured it was probably the safest thing to do.
    I hope you carry on getting better!
    Athene
  5. JanisB

    JanisB Senior Member

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    Thanks for drawing my attention to this interesting thread. I tested low on plasma aminos years ago (I think it was 2000) and took custom aminos until I got in the normal range in 2004. I didn't feel anything from the aminos though, and it was one of many things that may have contributed to my improvement. In the recent past, last year until about 1 month ago, I took essential aminos only, no AKG, no glutamine, no taurine. I think it helped a little but I didn't take until mid afternoon when I started to feel tired and more dragged out than usual. I think it helped me get over the hump until dinner.

    I learned about SON Formula, also called MAP, from another site and looked at the research on it. It turns out that, according to these researchers, a certain combination of essential aminos has a significantly better net nitrogen utilization than animal flesh, milk, eggs, dairy and vegetable protein. I don't have access to a medical library so I haven't been able to read their articles, just the five abstracts they have online. I am now experimenting with that product. I started another thread when I first learned about it which is http://www.forums.aboutmecfs.org/showthread.php?3869-Are-you-low-in-amino-acids

    The issue is whether PWCs will burn these aminos for fuel in the Kreb's cycle, as Rich suggests we all do, which is why we have such low urinary amino acids, or whether we'll use them to rebuild the body. If we use aminos to rebuild, we should see increased lean muscle mass if we put demands on the muscles.

    However, without exercising, it is possible we might see increased cardiac strength, since nitrogen deprivation for any length of time in chronically ill people tends to reduce heart and liver tissue, as these organs turn over cells more often than other parts of the body (this according to Dr. Grandi of the INRC who has studied protein utilization). I think this could explain why OI improves with essential aminos.
  6. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    After experimenting with these for several months, I noticed that I have to take 2 before getting up and then several times thereafter. They just don't work for me otherwise. I'm assuming that I just burn through my aminos too quickly otherwise. I eat a healthy diet of meats, veggies and proteins so I'm just not breaking down protein like I should.

    My GP offered to run these tests for me but I just never got around to being tested ...

    I'm still learning about all of this but what I liked about Solgar's essential aminos is that all of the aminos are in the same quantity. And they don't include tryptophan and they include histidine. I take 5HTP (tryptophan) at night and it puts me to sleep so I don't want anymore during the day. And MAP doesn't have histidine ... So it's lacking in 1 important essential amino.

    Seeing as how aminos come from the foods we eat and none of these studies ever look at diet, gut dysbiosis, available enzymes, etc so they don't know which ones we're absorbing or breaking down, it made sense to me to stick with a supplement that gave us the exact same quantities of each.

    I'm over my head here but I'm not sure what to make of Rich saying that we burn aminos for fuel. My understanding is that we burn glucose for fuel even if our bodies have to make it from ketones ...
  7. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    arginine / lysine / 'safety'...

    Yes...this is definitely complicated and confusing. Arginine has certainly been connected with higher rates of herpes-family infections, but at the same time, if it's been used for HIV patients, where their immune function is basically shot, and it's been found to help them with muscle and weight loss, then why wouldn't it be safe for CFS and/or XMRV patients? Just asking...

    I can't find it right now, but I think I read somewhere that as long as one takes twice the amount of lysine compared to arginine, that it becomes a moot issue...but will try and find that information.
  8. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    I'm not sure either X-Choc, but I think we burn them for fuel if glucose is not available or our glucose stores (in the liver) have run too low. Seems to me Carter Burke was taking like 20 grams or so (total) of different amino acids -- and doing better. And when you think about it as 'protein', 20 grams isn't that much.

    ???
  9. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    IMHO, if you have a Herpes virus, I wouldn't take arginine. I can't take it actually. I have to take 1000 - 2000 mg of Lysine daily or else I get sores in my nose .. obviously, I'm getting enough / too much arginine in my diet and it's triggering a Herpes flare ... I could just give up the dark chocolate ... ; )
  10. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Update time ...

    I stopped taking these when I started taking the ADB12 because my arms stopped feeling so weak when I was folding clothes. Most of the time, I was getting sudden muscle weakness where I had to stop and let my arms recover.

    BUT ... after realizing that supplement manufacturers use aminos to make minerals more bioavailable I restarted these 3 days ago. I feel better already ... I'm not getting that overwhelming urge to lay down but when I do I can still feel the blood getting back up into my upper body. I'm going to lay down every few hours and after eating a meal still since my body seems to need it. And this is what these did for me to begin with ... duh !!

    I'm not sure if these help our bodies absorb other nutrients too. BUT ... I would think so since essential aminos break down into non essential aminos, peptides and enzymes so they're very important ... I think I have info here on how essential aminos break down but if not googling these will explain this.

    end of update ... lol ... tc ... X

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