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Urgent?L-Meth raising Histamine

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by GenDylan, Jun 15, 2013.

  1. GenDylan

    GenDylan

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    Ever since supplementing L-methionine and TMG I have been getting severe histamine reactions!
    I thought L-methionine was used to lower high histamine!
    Can someone pleaseee tell me why this is happening.

    Could this possibly be due to a mutation in methylation?? This is so severe that I'm for sure getting a 23andMe test as soon as I can afford it. I know my low cortisol is a reason why my histamine is so high,also a reason why my adrenaline/anxiety is so high. This is ridiculous, I've never had such hot flashes/itching before these supplements!
    I was on them for a few weeks,have been off for a couple...
    My histamine is as high as possible right now. My goodness.

    Please help!!
  2. dishwashsoap

    dishwashsoap

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    Crazy we're going through this at the same time. I had taken some methyl-folate early in the day and it didn't do much. Then when I took TMG later, it was like an explosion of histamine. I've been in bad shape ever since. Just woke up and my chest and face are still bright red, I'm still itchy, sneezy, and feel like junk. This is terrible. Yesterday I took some Niacin (100mg) and that caused an intense flush but it really seemed to help. It wore off in 4 hours and all my symptoms came back. The Niacin did not work the second time. I've taken cal/mag twice and that seems to release more histamine, which I'm not sure is a good thing. That's all I know so far. This is hell. Good luck.
  3. Star-Anise

    Star-Anise Senior Member

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    Yes.

    This response seems to be common especially when inflammation is involved. Please see:
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ce-since-starting-methylation-protocol.23281/

    Don't push it. My experience with histamine is that there can definitely be a snowball effect, more leads to more, which leads to more, and so on. I had to take anti-histamines everyday for a good month to help get my reactions calmed down. My fav was the 24-hour Reactine. It likely won't solve all your histamine problems though because it only blocks some receptors. As you are sorting this out, you may want to experiment with low histamine and amine foods, as these could just add to the large amounts of circulating histamine that you have. A quick google can easily identify several lists of these.

    L-methionine and TMG can also be an issue for those that are sulphur sensitive, which I am. Read:
    http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/food/high-sulfur-sulphur-food-list/
    What I have found from my research is that mercury can be one of the factors in causing the sulphur problem, along with genetic predispositions to difficulties with dealing with sulphur. I am waiting my 23andme results to confirm, but I have had great results with following Yasko's advice re: activated charcoal. I was able to go off of my antihistamines completely. I still do have to avoid high-sulphur foods, I can tolerate meat, but need to do the charcoal cleanse now every week or so still. As well I find that some of my food reactions are returning a smidge during PMS. There must be some relationship to estrogen dominance, perhaps through an inflammatory pathway. Unsure.

    Hope that helps.
    S :)
  4. maryb

    maryb Senior Member

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    Star-Anise
    hi there there just wondering how do you do a charcoal cleanse? I am having some amalgams out soon (last 3) and have just been advised to take chorella before and after. However I seem to remember taking charcoal last time I had some out.
  5. dishwashsoap

    dishwashsoap

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    Star-Anise, thank you for posting that. What an interesting morning this has been. I did the charcoal and magnesium flush the moment after you posted. I hope it helps. Just two activated charcoal tabs with a bunch of mag citrate and water, right?

    I just ran my 23andme results through geneticgenie and whoa: I have a whole bunch of methylation mutations. The CBS mutation I have makes specific mention fo sulphur issues and the build up of ammonia. And I have another mutation which also specifies that I would have problems with methyl-donors...so it appears I really did myself in TMG.

    I have also noted the relationship beween whatever's happening and estrogen dominance. Do you get little cherry angiomas on your skin, too? I'm told these are from excess estrogen/copper. (Copper builds up with estrogen apparently.) Reading through the pdf of Yasko's book it seems my mutations have a lot to do with zinc/copper imabalance as well. (Zinc increases progesterone which opposes estrogen, I think.) I already knew I had a copper problem, so this is interesting. It seems like Yasko has connected all the dots. Another thing she recommends for the sulphur issue is molyb, which also opposes copper...so I'll be trying that out once this histamine reaction is gone.

    Anise, were there any other Yasko related tips you've discovered? I'm sort of blown away I never bothered to look into her before considering how spot on she seems.

    GenDylan, didn't mean to hijack your thread here, but I definitely think it's worth a shot to try the charcoal flush, and to stay away form sulphur foods for a bit. Other than that I'm taking some anti-histamines which are helping minimally. Please post if you find anything else that helps. My face and chest are still bright red and itchy and I still feel really hyper/out of it.
  6. Star-Anise

    Star-Anise Senior Member

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    maryb: Hi there! Here is a link to Yasko's book for free:
    www.dramyyasko.com/wp.../files.../1327512160_9_1_1_8_pdf_02_file.pdf
    Hopefully it works. If not here's the gist. But it would be good to get her book cuz so many gems there.
    Charcoal and Magnesium Flushes
    Dosage: 1 to 2 capsules of charcoal, followed by enough magnesium citrate to
    produce a bowel movement within 8–12 hours. Once per week or more depending
    on testing and behaviors.

    A charcoal flush soaks up excess ammonia in the body. You may want to do a
    “trial run” with magnesium citrate the day before to determine how much you
    need to use to produce a bowel movement within 8–12 hours. You can do the
    flush on a weekend, as that may be more convenient. Use charcoal flushes if ammonia
    is high or needs to be kept under control, as indicated on the MPA and/
    or biochemical testing.
  7. maryb

    maryb Senior Member

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    Star-Anise
    Do you know roughly what amount of magnesium citrate and average person would need to take? I can't read books - have vision problems since getting ME, it was my favourite past-time until then:(
    I have recently done the 23and me test. How would I know if I had excess ammonia? sorry so many questions.
  8. Star-Anise

    Star-Anise Senior Member

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    Hi dishwashsoap!
    Yes, at first I took the charcoal during day (careful to keep away from my other supplements by 2 hours), and then took the magnesium citrate at night. But funny enough I found the magnesium citrate to be stimulating, so took it at other times. I had to do it a couple of times within the first week or two to see a significant clearing of brain fog. It took a couple of times to see any difference with histamine response too.

    Me too. Still sorting this relationship out. My hunch the bottom line for me is mercury. Going to get my last "silver" filling out in next month, and then I plan to chelate. I'm looking for non-sulphur chelate agents and am considering using zeolite. As far as I can see doesn't seem to involve sulphur.... but definitely still researching this one :)

    Ha ha that's so funny. I started to notice some of them a few years ago! Yes, there definitely is this relationship between estrogen dominance and copper toxicity. I crave copper foods like mad around PMS time, although this is decreasing. I have been generally trying to eat low copper.
    Do you have any cyp mutations? I am curious to get my 23andme back; I hope they report on that. They are very much related to estrogen metabolism issues. I have been using Rosemary, and Calcium D Glucarate to assist with estrogen metabolism with good progress. Many other common estrogen metabolizers like DIM or I3C rely on sulphur to detox. I also have to eat a diet low in phytoestrogens & grains, as lignans in grains provide a phytoestrogen quality. This has helped immensely. I'm not sure why I have the impaired estrogen metabolism, and hope that the cyp mutation info will help explain. That explains a lot: zinc & relationship to progesterone. The copper toxicity info blew my mind. Apparently people can be copper toxic from birth, which would explain my estrogen dominance symptoms from age 12!!! :(

    I would consider starting it sooner rather than later. But just small, small doses. And manganese as well. These were the next step for me after I did several charcoal flushes.

    Ya it was pretty mind-blowing for me too. Her book is so very rich with tonnes of stuff. I will have more to share once I get my own snps back. Her Glutamate-GABA info was quite helpful for me. She confirmed what I know to be the importance of a healthy gut. I'm sure I have a A1298C mutation, but we'll see... Sometimes histamine response can be related to impaired DAO enzyme function, which from my research seems to be related to impaired gut function.

    I would keep taking them though until you get through this phase. I also speculated that increased histamine response could be related to re-activated adrenal function. But really unsure about this. Either way, I found I needed to wean myself off of most supplements that I was taking to support adrenals fast, as they were overdriving my adrenaline response. Really take a close look at all of your supplements. I found that I became so very sensitive to any cofactors in methylation process like Zinc, Vitamin E... in supplement and food sources (like oysters - high zinc).

    If this is just related to the overdose in methyl donors and not a baseline issue, unfortunately might have to wait to flush out. However if you are having issues like this chronically I wonder more about the hyper/out of it symptom. I would read more about the GABA/glutamate balance stuff in Yasko's book and see if any of it rings true for you :)

    Star:)
  9. Star-Anise

    Star-Anise Senior Member

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    maryb:
    re: magnesium citrate - you have to do til bowel tolerance. My hunch the weaker your system is, the less it would take. I would start with 150 mg, which is what I tried first. If you do not have a bowel movement in 8-12 hours then take more. The worst thing is that you will get constipated :( & then you'll know to take more. It will cause a "dump," & loose stools, but this is a good thing.
    re: whether you would have problems with CBS, you would have to take a look at the mutations and see if you have any listed. I haven't done this, but people have to take their raw data from 23andme and put it through genetic genie. I think there are several free programs that the people on this site are using to do this...here's one that I know about:
    http://geneticgenie.org/methylation-analysis/
    let me know if you need more help :)
    S.
  10. maryb

    maryb Senior Member

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    Star-Anise
    thank you so much for your advice re magnesium, I think I have a while to wait for my results fom 23and me, only just sent the test off. I may be back..............:)
  11. Star-Anise

    Star-Anise Senior Member

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    maryb
    Yes I'm impatiently waiting for my results too. I did the charcoal flush on a hunch & it turned out in my favor. Probably the safest thing would b 2 wait for your results as well, but if u feel u have some surplus in energy to devote to cleansing right now, doing charcoal cleanse may be beneficial, as it pulls other toxins out as well as ammonia, & I'm sure toxic buildup is a chronic issue for as all CBS issues or not. Yasko also says somewhere that she has never worked with anyone with chronic health issues that has not had issues with ammonia buildup...
    All the best,
    Star:)
  12. GenDylan

    GenDylan

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    dishwashsoap I'm really thinking I have a mutation now. because you do, and our reactions seem to be rare.

    Star-Anise I will definitely pick up some charcoal very soon. It's possible I could have a CBS mutation,and the charcoal could reduce my severe brain fog(which I've had every second of every day for at least a year and a half) . Btw i do horrible on high-protein diets,even though I have low blood sugar. This could be a big indication for CBS
  13. Star-Anise

    Star-Anise Senior Member

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    GenDylan
    I'm curious what precipitated your onset of brain fog. Yes, the high protein intolerance is a red flag re: ammonia issues. You might find that the meat protein causes less difficulties once you clear out the ammonia. This was definitely the case with me. As well, I seem to do better with red meat, which from what I understand has the best zinc/copper balance. The low blood sugar for me was very much connected to adrenal issues, and resulting hypoglycemia. It became better when I lost some weight, and was able to put on some muscle, as well as ++support to adrenals and higher fat diet. Dr. Neville from Clymer Institute recommended the following product to me when I was having trouble tolerating protein:
    http://www.greenpasture.org/public/Products/CodLiverOil/index.cfm
    Cold Liver Oil is low in thiols.. and apparently good brand :)
    Ammonia issues as per Yasko suggests can also be related to yeast issues, as yeast is an ammonia producing organism. And from what I have recently found out, chronic yeast is often our body's way of dealing with mercury toxicity.
    See this thread for an outline/discussion of my CBS success :)
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/cbs-success.23257/
    Star
  14. GenDylan

    GenDylan

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    My brain fog is definitely caused by the tiring/after effects of Adrenaline. My adrenaline is sky high because its a main counter to histamine. Cortisol is also a main counter and since my cortisol is low, I need more adrenaline to lower histamine . I can't wait to get on Hydrocortisone for my low cortisol.

    Thanks for the support Star-Anise
  15. Star-Anise

    Star-Anise Senior Member

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    GenDylan
    Hi there, I am not so familiar with the relationship between histamine and cortisol/adrenaline, but it certianly explains the symptoms that I get with the histamine flushes, my heart is just a pumping, and my anxiety is sky high! Ha ha....
    re: low cortisol - just curious, have you tried any of the non-prescription methods to raise cortisol? I have had great success with pregnenolone (master hormone & precursor to cortisol), adrenal glandulars as well as adaptogens like ashwagandha in past...
    Star :)
  16. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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    idk, idk. But I recently read that anxiety can be caused by insufficient P5P. So it is possible raising methionine is causing a P5P deficit as you need P5P to clear homocysteine or it will build up. I hope you are taking a B complex? B's need to be taken together. If so and still anxiety then you may need extra P5P (I do). I take 50mg extra P5P and I am exploring taking it 2x/day as of today. I am 55 and I take DHEA for anxiety as of age 50 (I am CBS +/+ and +/- and may need way more P5P because of it...sometimes CBS responds to P5P. Also testosterone, created out of DHEA, helps regulate CBS)

    I should say these things help 97% - I am just goig to try to get the same effect w/o quite so much DHEA now that I know P5P can do the job).
  17. GenDylan

    GenDylan

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    triffid113 I am wondering if this reaction is indeed due to excess homocysteine . I'm scarred of the P5P tho,because of its possible reaction with the thing that caused my histamine overload-methionine .
    Could anyone comment on a possible relationship between homocysteine build up and histamine. I will research

    I found a GREAT thread on this site,about this same issue. http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...icked-off-a-histamine-reaction-richvank.9023/
    Not sure if anyone has showed me this link,don't think so, but thanks if you did.

    This thread suggests methylb12 or metafolyn could really help. Could a deficiency in one of those cause this reaction??
    I really need help here. My histamine is so high it's ridiculous. If I get a little excited I get an itch episode!
  18. dishwashsoap

    dishwashsoap

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    GenDylan, my immediate full red-face, red-body histamine reaction went down. I did a few charcoal flushes and have been taking molybdenum. I have no idea if they helped or not. I am still in the same boat though, my histamine is still crazy high. I'm so scared of taking something that would set off the histamine chain again. I can't handle another night like that. Almost went insane. Right now I'm trying methyl-B12, as my research shows a functional deficiency could have caused the reaction to the folate +TMG, but it's too early to tell. It's definitely doing something and I'm way more emotional and a little more itchy. Detox? Making me worse? Who knows. The thing that is written for high-histamine types is to take l-methionine. It's been recommended to me twice now, but I'm so scared to try it after what TMG did. Let me know if you find something that works.
  19. GenDylan

    GenDylan

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    I'm very scarred of raising my histamine even more,too. I'm going to try methylb12 and metafolin. The b12 could be raising your histamine ,that's what many think it does.BUT it has lowered histamine for some. I will try these two,and keep antihistamines on deck. This sucks
  20. dishwashsoap

    dishwashsoap

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    GenDylan: When I was just taking the TMG, the histamine reactions were barely noticeable. When I added the methyl-folate 800mcg, that's when I exploded. I'd start with one thing at a time. I'm just starting out with this stuff, but I'd start with the B12 and then add in SMALL amounts of the the folate later. Be careful. And please let me know if you work up the courage to try the l-methionine.

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