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"Urge Incontinence" or "Overactive Bladder" major difficulty.Help! Anyone else?

Discussion in 'Gastrointestinal and Urinary' started by Hotch, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. busybee

    busybee Senior Member

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  2. PatJ

    PatJ far and free I gaze

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    According to Wikipedia it may also elevate blood pressure which could be useful for those of us with OI due to low BP (although it also elevates heart rate). It has some potentially serious side effects but in the lower percent range (1-10%).
     
  3. maddietod

    maddietod Senior Member

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    I think the only test for a coffee-urinary frequency problem is to drink coffee and see what happens! I have trouble with coffee AND tea, but no problems if I avoid them. You might want to talk with your doctor about the increased thirst.
     
  4. Oberon

    Oberon Senior Member

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    I completely agree. Based on my experience food sensitivity testing isn't even remotely accurate, but I am a mere case study.

    I hope this does end up helping, and let us know how it goes.
     
  5. Monarda

    Monarda

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    The herbal world… something you might try. “Mullein Root Tincture”, it’s safe for long term use. It is commonly used for incontinence with the elderly and new mothers.

    Several parts of the mullein plant are used (Verbascum thapsus). Only mullein root is used for incontinence, not the blooms or the other parts. I checked the net, found bloom and whole plant tinctures.

    Where you’d find it in Australia I’ve no clue. I know 3 people I could buy it from in my area, drive to their house and pick it up. In fact I just bought some for my 82 year old dad.

    Henriette Kress explained to me there is one bladder muscle that isn’t voluntary. This is the muscle that is toned by mullein root. She suggested kegel exercises as well.
     
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  6. Sea

    Sea Senior Member

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    What exactly do you mean by urge incontinence? If your experience is at all like mine then some bladder training may be helpful.

    Several years ago I had reached a point where I had to rush for the bathroom when I stood up and if my pants button was difficult or I had to wait in line I had some incontinence. I discovered when I was out that I was fine to walk to a toilet a couple of minutes away but the incontinence happened while I was locking the toilet door. It led to a sense of urgency and developing a habit of rushing to close the door, undress and sit down. I knew it wasn't just a matter of not holding a full bladder because I would also have been fine to walk longer to the toilet. It was my body getting the message to let go before I was ready as well as an inability to hold it back once that let go response had started.

    Once I realised that I worked on not rushing to the toilet, continually telling myself "you're not there yet, you're still walking" while closing the door in a deliberately slow manner, progressing to undressing in an unhurried manner and counting to 5 once I sat down before I allowed myself to say "ok, you're there now, you can relax."

    It made a huge difference very quickly and I no longer have that issue. I probably still couldn't hold back the flow once it starts, but that's a different issue to the signalling one
     
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  7. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    Yes the signaling and the (in)ability to control the sphincter are two different things.
     
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  8. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I think he means overactive bladder, also known as:

    Overactive bladder syndrome
    Irritable bladder
    Irritable bladder syndrome
    Urinary urgency

    In the CCC, irritable bladder syndrome is listed as one of the comorbid conditions of ME/CFS.

    Autonomic dysfunction has been implicated in overactive bladder (refs: 1, 2, 3) , and I would not be surprised if future research finds overactive bladder associated with autoantibodies that that target the muscarinic or adrenergic receptors of the autonomic nervous system, as has been found in other autonomic diseases such as POTS and orthostatic hypotension.

    Autoantibodies to the muscarinic M3 receptor have been suggested as a possible cause for the related condition of interstitial cystitis. The M3 receptor is located on the detrusor muscle cells of the bladder, and this receptor mediates the muscular contractions of the bladder.

    Autonomic dysfunction could help explain why there are strong nervous contractions of the bladder detrusor muscle, which try to force the urine out.



    I tried my own "bladder training" psychological approaches to try to combat the intense bladder detrusor muscle contractions and urgency to urinate that can suddenly appear, such as meditative deep breathing to try to relax, and I found it helps a bit, but only slightly.

    But for me, the overriding factor was the strong involuntary contractions of the bladder muscle (called bladder spasms), which create pulses of pressure in the bladder that attempt to push the urine out.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2016
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  9. wonderoushope

    wonderoushope Senior Member

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    I went to a gynecologist who i think was pretty useless, she said I had an overactive bladder or internal cystitis and to go to a physio and get bladder training.

    I go through periods of this mainly when my stomach is playing up. Also wine is a huge one for me. If I have white wine I'll go to the toilet every 5 min for the whole night, which says to me my frequency comes about from my stomach being aggravated.

    I can hold on, the problem is I will go to toilet but a minute later I will need to again and can repeat this every few minutes. Luckily I only get this in bouts every month or so or if I have wine.
     
  10. Dechi

    Dechi Senior Member

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    My doctor suggested I add salt to my drinking water to diminish the frequency to which I urinate. I did that and I still peed as much and I gained 4 pounds while eating just the right amount of calories ! No more salt for me...
     
  11. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    I have B6 toxicity and have problems with holding until I can find a restroom...or make it to mine. Sometimes I don't make it. I have read B6 toxicity does something with your muscles that lets this happen.

    This is something I read, please DYODD, but it seems to fit my situation.
     
  12. Hotch

    Hotch Hotch

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    Sorry I have taken so long to reply. The silly season took its toll on me. I hope you all managed to enjoy some of the holidays.

    Thanks everyone, helped a lot! Problem significantly improved. From what I have read, another name for the sphincter having a mind of its own is Neurogenic Bladder. It can happen in any disorders of the Central Nervous System. Since coffee (and tea) are central nervous system stimulants they aggravate it. The last 2 times I had coffee I had big problems. However, since quitting coffee I have been able to make it to the bathroom in time! Woohoo!!! (I still always make sure I know where the loo is so I can get there fast if need be). It sounds like this is what you were talking about Iansbergen and hip. Like you hip I have tried the relaxing and muscle strengthening exercises but they didn't stop it.



    Busybee and patj. If prob returns will investigate Mirabegron. Thankyou.

    Lakes are cool and maddietod. Yes you helped heaps. So appreciated.

    Monarda. I love herbs too. I Go natural whenever possible. If I find it comes back at some stage I will give your suggestion a go.

    Sea. What I mean by Urge Incontinence is that i get the urge but do not have enough time to make it to the toilet. As inability to control the sphincter

    Wonderoushope. I have done the exercises over the course of the 4 years but it didn't seem to correlate with much improvement. I don't know if this could help you. At the first sign of urine frequency or irritation, my daughter, Mum, sister in law and me take "D Mannose". It works brilliantly for "e- coli" germ which Causes 85% of UTIs (dif E. coli to food poisoning). Unfortunately if someone's is caused by other germ, it won't work. It is natural and is phenomenal. Good effects are felt within half an hour. My daughter and sister in law had both had a bad history with almost constant U.T.Is and kidney infections. No more since having D Mannose in cupboard. I get it from iherb, now brand. I know yours is not UTI but thought I'd mention it anyway. You never know! I hope you find something that works for you.

    Here's hoping
     
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  13. Jenny TipsforME

    Jenny TipsforME Senior Member

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  14. PatJ

    PatJ far and free I gaze

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    Increasing methylfolate from 800mcg/day to 2400mcg/day has helped me to reduce urinary frequency and has reduced the urgency somewhat as well. I still go every 1 - 1.5 hours during the day but it's a welcome improvement. Electrolytes help to reduce the frequency as well.
     
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  15. Jenny TipsforME

    Jenny TipsforME Senior Member

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    @PatJ yes electrolytes imbalance appears to make this worse for me too (not verified as the issue).
     
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  16. Lissyleigh

    Lissyleigh

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    Hi, I get this and am under a consultant because of it. I believe it is linked to the muscular weakness I experience with m.e, but neither my GP or consultant have much understanding of m.e and see it as mainly tiredness so they don't connect it. I need to urinate frequently and can't hold it for long at all. I also experience stress incontinence when I'm feeling worse m.e wise.
     
  17. Hotch

    Hotch Hotch

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    Hi Lissyleigh, I used to have urinary frequency for years. I would be up 4-7 times a night and very frequently during the day, sometimes not making it to the bathroom. I too believe it was worse at times when I was weaker. I no longer have much of that problem anymore. yay! Maybe, as jennytipsforme and PatJ have mentioned, all the vits, salt and minerals I take have helped that. But this problem is very different. It is like a switch is turned on and complete emptying occurs all at once, sometimes before I can get to the bathroom. It only happens every now and then thank goodness. It has been so humiliating when it has happened out in public (in middle of DJs etc). There is no hiding it.

    Thank you jennytipsforme and PatJ. I have been put on so many supplements that sometimes I wonder which ones are Really necessary. Sounds like the electrolyte ones are doing some good
     
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  18. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @Hotch Just came across this thread. My bladder urgency, now past, seems to have been due to mast cell issues.
     
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  19. Hotch

    Hotch Hotch

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    Hi Ahmo,

    Thanks for that. A very interesting read. My problems have also now passed (thank goodness!) . Since I began going to a chiropractor who works on freeing the signals of the nervous system I have really improved. From the very first day I had improvement. Still have a long way to go but I am floored by the impact this has had on me.
     

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