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Update on Karina.

Discussion in 'Action Alerts and Advocacy' started by Countrygirl, Feb 8, 2015.

  1. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

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    We haven't heard anything about Karina for a long time, but I have just come across this post on Facebook which gives us a little news. It sounds dire and is as grim as some UK cases.


     
  2. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

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    This has recently been posted and relates the background of Karina's case.


    KARINA HANSEN - HOSTAGE OF THE DANISH PSYCHIATRIC SYSTEM

    Karina Hansen is a 25 year old Danish Severe ME patient.

    Unfortunately Karina's story is no ordinary ME story

    Karina, with the help of her parents was struggling with an unknown disease from the age of 16. She was eventually told she had ME, although no official diagnosis was given. But the treatment she was then given made her condition worse, thus requiring her mother to become her full time carer.

    In Denmark, PWME are deemed to be suffering with a 'Functional Disorder' Their health service treatment is GET & CBT and antidepressants.
    Treating ME patients with these treatments, due to the PENE effect can often tip them into a severe ME state. This happened to Karina in 2008 when she was admitted to an arthritis hospital.

    In 2010 Karina again was again pressured into a hospital stay. By this time she was suffering all the classic ME symptoms plus light & noise sensitivities. During that hospital stay, a Dr recorded that Karina was not depressed or had any psychotic tendencies, so there was no reason why she should be kept for psychiatric reasons, so should be allowed to go home. Two weeks later she was officially diagnosed with ME.

    In early 2012, I remember reading that a young girl (her name was unknown at the time) was being pressured by a Danish psychiatrist, Per Fink, to be taken into his Hammel Neurocenter psychiatric clinic, but refused to state what the treatment would be.

    This reminded me of the case of the UK Severe ME patient Sophia Mirza, who in 2005 was forcibly removed from her home by Social Services and psychiatrists and subjected to intensive GET/CBT treatment which sadly led to her premature death. The coroner stated the cause of death was ME/CFS which was exasperated by the psychiatric treatment. (they did not know about PENE in those days).

    Karina and her parents hired a lawyer and were granted the power of attorney over Karina and managed to fend of the advances of Per Fink. So Fink then wrote to the Danish Ministry of health asking for the power to remove the Karina's parents legal rights over her.

    On February 12th 2013 he returned unannounced, accompanied by five policemen, two doctors, two social workers and a locksmith, Karina's mother was physically restrained whilst the bedbound Karina was forcibly removed, pleading with them to allow her tp remain at home with her family.
    Since that time, Karina's parents rights of power of attorney have been disregarded and Fink installed a legal guardian, who has the replaced the rights of her family for her. He has also refused all requests from Karina's family to visit her including Birthdays and Christmas.

    Fink has stripped Karina of her ME diagnosis and replaced it with an unknown psychiatric diagnosis. He has refused the offer by the UK ME expert Dr Nigel Speight to provide a second opinion on her ME diagnosis.
    ON FEB 12th 2015, KARINA WILL HAVE BEEN A HOSTAGE TO FINK FOR TWO YEARS frown emoticon WITH NO HOPE OF RELEASE IN SIGHT, KARINA DESPERATELY NEEDS OUR HELP. PLEASE DON'T FORGET KARINA
     
    Mel9, filfla4, Debbie23 and 14 others like this.
  3. Cheshire

    Cheshire Senior Member

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    Thanks Countrygirl.

    This whole story is just so tragic. This "treatment" just doesn't make no sense, even if Karina had a psychiatric disorder. Isolatating her from her family is just mere cruaulty and torture for both her and her family.
     
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  4. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    State-sanctioned torture is taking place in a Western democracy in the 21st century all because of delusional beliefs of psychiatrists that people can think themselves into having physical symptoms. This is why psychosomatic medicine must be strenuously opposed. The relationship between the mind and the body is not a matter of some arcane philosophical academic debate. These theories have devastating real-world consequences for people who are too incapacitated to run away from their torturers/executioners. Theories can and do kill people.
     
  5. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    She might not have brain damage. That may be yet another inept diagnosis to cover up their failures.
     
  6. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    I really do hope so.
     
  7. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    I hope it's one of those situations where the psychiatrists, faced with a patient who is obviously extremely sick and can't be made to exercise or comply with any of their bogus treatment, have to re-diagnose the patient with something that isn't CFS because CFS is not a real disease so having a patient with that diagnosis that is obviously sick simply does not compute and can't be left to stand because it undermines the position that CFS is imagined.
     
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  8. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    @Sidereal. Yep, pretty well what I think is happening. What evidence exists for brain damage? They cannot simply be using an fMRI or a qEEG and making this claim definitively as ME has lots of damage using these methods. So what is the basis of the claim? Can they differentiate between ME and other brain damage? Is claiming brain damage an acknowledgement that patient has ME and they have been inept all along?

    Inept is my current favourite word. Its easily defensible in these kinds of situations.
     
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  9. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

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    i suspect that even severe cases of schizophrenia aren't treated like this. How can this be justified?

    Conversion disorder isn't even classified as a psychosis.
     
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  10. GracieJ

    GracieJ Senior Member

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    The year is 2015, and there are horror stories like this. There is no parallel version of innocent until proven guilty here, which means criminals are treated more fairly than our sick.

    I am getting madder by the minute.

    @Countrygirl Thanks for the update.
     
    Debbie23, CantThink, MeSci and 3 others like this.
  11. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    How long will this go on without helping Karina before they decide to let her decide how she wants to live her life? Who is this 'treatment' for?
     
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  12. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I really hope she got some of her birthday cards. I actuallly had thought they wouldnt allow her parents to deliver them so I sent her birthday card care of the hospital and was very very careful what I put it in. So I really hope she did get some like mine who addressed them there.

    There is a good chance with those psych drugs they may of further damaged her, thou of cause they also need an excuse for her not becoming well and able.
     
  13. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Rebel without a biscuit

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    I am so sad for her and her family.

    Karina and others also in her situation need immediate help from someone (or plural) well known with an impeccable reputation in the medical scientific community.

    We can get angry, offer our support but in the end someone who will be believed must get media attention on this heinous mistreatment.
     
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  14. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Im wondering if they gave her ECT (electric shock therapy)? Does anyone know. That's quite well known for being able to cause brain damage.
     
  15. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    My heart breaks for poor Karina and her family and I was wondering if there is any kind of civil rights group or international law that can intervene on her behalf? I apologize I do not know all the details of this case.

    I am also confused how and why the government of Denmark is paying to keep her in the hospital for so long. My only basis of comparison is the US but my 12 yrs working as a psychiatric social worker (before ME ended my career) we had very strict patients rights laws that were followed whether the patient had schizophrenia or an unclear diagnosis- it did not matter.

    The insurance companies number one goal was to discharge the patient as fast as humanly possible and I never saw a scenario where treatment lasted this long even with wealthy families who were private pay.

    Who pays for this with ME patients abroad and why? I am asking sincerely b/c I don't understand the motivation of the hospital or government?

    ETA: When I read these stories I feel like I am reading about the 1950's and not 2015.
     
  16. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    These ME patients end up getting so much worst that the hospitals end up having to keep them or to discharge them and admit they are wrong. America is lucky I guess as I havent heard of a case like this there but even Australia had a severe ME person who was locked away in psych place against her and her families wishes and ended up dying with ME due to this, she was only 19.

    This is how our Alison Hunter Memorial Foundation came to be (started by her mother). They raise money to find a cure for ME and only fund good studies (no psych ones).

    This kind of thing will keep happening worldwide (I fear it could end up happening to me as Im sick to look after myself without support and may end up completely bedridden again) till some kind of international org steps in and starts some how fighting this abuse going on. It's human rights abuses esp since they've people are locked away only cause they have ME which the psychs believe they can cure.
    .........

    At the moment I think there are 3 different ME ones locked away against their wishes.. Brian in the UK who's been locked away long term too (unless anyone has an update on him) and I heard about another female a little while back (I forget what country she was in). How many is this being done to which we dont hear about? How many are dying from this?
     
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  17. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    There is a special place in Hell just for people like Per Fink. :devil:
     
  18. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    It has happened in the US, but only in the case of children who were forcibly removed from their parents. There was a boy with ME who finally turned 18 a year or two ago and was able to get the hell away from it all. I don't think he was detained at a psychiatric facility, but rather "treated" at a foster home and/or group home.

    More recently was a girl with a mitochondrial disorder, Justina Pelletier, who was incarcerated for 11 months at Boston Children's Hospital and 5 months at a residential facility. In that case, research funds were involved. Her family were able to get her back - not by shutting up as ordered by the court, but by risking jail and talking to the media about the case.

    She was released in June 2014, but had to be hospitalized for GI issues briefly (far away from BCH) in December. They're working on legislation to prevent involuntarily incarcerated patients from being used in research, and it sounds like a lawsuit is also in the works.
     
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  19. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    @Valentijn thanks for responding and I have heard of Justina's case and was horrified by it. I know there is a lawsuit and I believe she testified in front of congress to prevent this from happening to other children.

    The DCFS/CPS system and the foster care system in the US are a disaster and that I often felt needed a complete overhaul b/c it was beyond repair. I only worked with adults in my career but never saw or heard of a case like Karina's happening to an adult here b/c they have different rights and insurance would kick the person out of the hospital before it got that far.

    I guess I am trying to wrap my mind around a case that is so illogical that no sense can be made if it and seems like an international human right agency should get involved.
     
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  20. eafw

    eafw Senior Member

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    I'm not sure that severe cases of anything are treated like this. It's so extreme.

    I don't understand why there is so little in the press about this. Have the parents spoken to the media, is someone blocking the story from being told ?

    Denmark has a state funded health service. Overall this is a good thing, but as in any situation where the Drs have too much power and status, empires are built and pockets of abuse can flourish. There isn't always a lot of joined-up thinking about costs either, though traditional (ie uncaring and useless) psych treatment is relatively cheap anyway.

    Yes, it's like the incarceration of "fallen women" and others who'd gone astray in some way though this was going on way past the 1950s.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2015

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