Severe ME Day of Understanding and Remembrance: Aug. 8, 2017
Determined to paper the Internet with articles about ME, Jody Smith brings some additional focus to Severe Myalgic Encephalomyelitis Day of Understanding and Remembrance on Aug. 8, 2017 ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Up then down again on the Freddd Protocol

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Johnmac, Aug 19, 2015.

  1. Johnmac

    Johnmac Senior Member

    Messages:
    702
    Likes:
    405
    Cambodia
    By last October I'd seen great gains from 6 weeks on the Freddd Protocol:

    Gut much more stable
    Brainfog gone
    Sleep 2 hours less per night
    Physical energy better during the day - no more fatigue
    Gained 3 kg (good)
    Psoriasis faded but it didn't last
    Libido much higher
    Halved hydrocortisone dose to 10mg/day (then 5)
    Better blood-sugar response (less knocked around by carbs)
    Improved motor skills, e.g. typing
    Better exercise tolerance
    Better mental functioning: thinking faster, planning, making decisions, etc
    Oily nose (despite lowering HC)
    Daytime temps (not waking temps) normalised - 36.9 or 37 consistently

    By April this year the gains had disappeared. The exceptions were oily nose & weight gain. (I've always been skinny with dry skin.) A near-return to my old state. So:

    * I doubled the dosages for 10 days. No effect.

    * I went off the protocol altogether. No change, for better or worse.

    * Lately two or three times I've taken 10,000 mcg AdoCbl, & a day later 800 mcg m-folate & 5,000 mcg mB12 (all sublingual). No effect.

    Does anyone have an idea of what's happening?

    In recent months I've diagnosed & treated pyroluria, which has wiped out my anxiety - a blessing. But I'm not especially well. Energy & focus are both low. Presently hydrocortisone, T3, DHEA, & support supps are propping me up. I was flying last year on much lower doses of all these.

    * Have I 'filled up' on the DQ, & don't need any more?

    * Am I iodine deficient?

    * Was the whole thing placebo effect?

    Thanks to all...
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2015
  2. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,158
    Likes:
    1,469
    My opinion, based on my experience and what you've told us, is that you likely still need the DQ. And probably in larger quantities than you've been taking, although possibly this is not true for carnitine/LCF. The dosages you listed above for the other three aren't very high.

    My strategy for the DQ when I was still having ups and downs with it was to go very, very high (up to 40mg/day) of methylfolate, large doses of methylcobalamin (I took injectable 5mg/day so can't tell you how high to go with tabs or transdermal oils to balance really high methylfolate), and 10,000mg/day of adenosylcobalamin. I stayed at these high doses for quite a few months, until attempting to step down a bit didn't give me adverse symptoms. It was a lot of trial and error.

    LCF was a bit different. Because of the anxiety and jitteriness it would have been impossible to speed up acclimation to LCF. I was on a low dose of that (250mg) for quite a few months, until I could bump that up to 500mg/day and then 1000mg/day. Reportedly there is no benefit to taking more than 1000mg/day of LCF, so that's where I have stayed with that.

    How high you go and how long you stick with it is entirely at your discretion and what you can tolerate, however. I'm just telling you what worked for me. I was persuaded by the entirety of what Freddd wrote of his experiences, and took the leap of faith. It paid off for me. YMMV.

    You may also need cofactors to fill defiicencies that become apparent as you begin to heal from taking the DQ. Examples of cofactors you may need higher doses of for a while include potassium, zinc, coenzymated B2 (FMN), coenzymated B6 (P5P), pantethine, etc. There's been quite a bit written around here about additional nutrients that help people through using the DQ.

    Possibly. Most people are subclinically deficient. But iodine supplementation can come with a whole set of its own side effects before you start seeing benefits. Recommend you do a lot of reading about it here and also other places on the 'net before you decided to try it. I love iodine but my first experience with it was negative. I had to do several rounds of chelation before I could tolerate it.

    Also recommend you try one or the other (Freddd's protocol or iodine) if you decide to proceed further with them. Don't do them both at the same time until you are stable with whichever you try first. Trying to start both from a point of not feeling well could cause you a lot more problems than you've already got, as well as confuse you with trying to figure out what is causing which symptom.

    Based on my experience with Freddd's protocol, I seriously doubt it. But we're all different. If you wish to consider that possibility, that's always your prerogative.

    Good luck!
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2015
    ahmo and Johnmac like this.
  3. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,340
    Likes:
    6,526
    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    Whodathunkit answered the first thing better than I would have. I found after 2 years of detox and high levels of DQ, all my needs have decreased, as if the deficiencies were replenished. Re placebo, as I commented on another thread yesterday, a few weeks ago I read a post of alex3619 noting that many people experience gains, only to have the effects diminish, or conditions drift backwards. I feel like I've *fixed* my methylation pathway. It seems to me that what I'm left with is dysfunctional mitocondria, which I'm doing my best to support. I no longer have symptoms, but I'm certainly not well. Have our bodies created a new set point, which things revert to? I don't have better language or science, but certainly not placebo.
     
  4. Johnmac

    Johnmac Senior Member

    Messages:
    702
    Likes:
    405
    Cambodia
    Thanks @whodathunkit (again).

    I am mystified as to why doubling doses had no effect previously, but I'll try again, on the hypothesis that you're right.

    Going up to your doses - if needed - would be financially impossible. 40mg of m-folate a day = a bottle of Solgar (800mcg/100 tabs) every 2 days. The bottles are $US13.12 each - giving me a weekly bill of $46 for folate alone. Impossible, I'm afraid.

    (Which raises a more general problem. Being sick means you can earn less; yet you actually need more, for all the supps. I will soon reach the point where I can't afford to treat myself. iHerb has been good, but $300 or $400 several times a year is not do-able for much longer.)

    I'm already on high-ish B6 & zinc, for pyroluria. (For which they've been very effectual.) I'll check out the other additional supps, thanks.

    I'll give the iodine theory a shot after I crash/succeed with Freddd Mk VII. I've ordered in the Iodoral, & done a fair bit of reading.

    @ahmo, I agree with you both that it's probably not placebo. Some of the effects were very strong & quite unexpected. However as @minkeygirl has said elsewhere, if it gets too complicated & there are too many side effects, you just can't continue.

    Thanks to both of you for the feedback.
     
  5. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,158
    Likes:
    1,469
    Yeah, it was quite pricey for a while. Luckily, I was able to prioritize it to the exclusion of most else for when I needed it most. Also luckily, my insurance at the time paid for the injectable mB12. That's coming out of my pocket now, but at least when I needed the big honking doses of that, I could get them through insurance. They denied the Deplin, though. Seems they want a psychological/psychiatric diagonosis to pay for that, and while I could have gone the depression route at the time I just didn't want that in my permanent medical record, with the way things are going.

    BUT...if you are depressed you might try to get some Deplin (prescription dose methylfolate in 1 easy-to-take pill) if you have insurance. It might work or might not, but maybe it's worth exploring. Worst that can happen is they tell you no.

    BTW, I'm not necessarily suggesting you go as high as I did with methylfolate dose. But doubling from 800 to 1600mcg really isn't much, (I take between 800-1600mcg/day just as maintenance) and probably not enough to get the response you want.

    Have you read Freddd's posts on "the levels of healing"? I analogize that theory to gassing up a car. If your tank is completely empty, and you only ever put $3.00 worth of gas in at a time, you will be forever running out of gas. Methylfolate seems to operate in somewhat the same way.

    Anyway, not trying to push, just encourage to possibly explore alternative avenues of dosage or routes of procurement.

    You might also want to consider getting a bottle of Lugol's 2% in case you need to titrate dosage more finely than iodoral lets you. Iodoral tabs are 12.5mg and halving the tab is the only split you can make and still be relatively sure of the dose. But each drop of Lugol's 2% is a little under 2mg so makes it easier to titrate. You can even do stuff like mix one drop in a certain number of ounces of water and titrate very small doses that way.

    Yes, this has definitely happened to me in the past. Almost happened with iodine but thankfully someone was able to give me some guidance to get over the hump. I did abandon it completely or a little while, though, before I started chelating and circled back around to it. Now I'm glad I didn't give up. :)
     
    PatJ likes this.
  6. Johnmac

    Johnmac Senior Member

    Messages:
    702
    Likes:
    405
    Cambodia
    Thanks once again @whodathunkit.

    Thanks to @ahmo too - I'll respond to you here also if I may.

    whodathunkit: No insurance, so I'll have to hope I'm not a high doser. (I'm not depressed.)

    I have a friend who bought in tens of kilograms of the chelator DMPS from China. (High quality, well-certificated, a fraction of the price elsewhere.) Vis a vis the FP nutrients, I wonder if doing something like that wouldn't be more economic for a long-term protocol and/or a high-dose user. For example:

    http://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...0018675340.html?spm=a2700.7724838.35.1.IboGIx

    That's methyl-folate powder at ~20c a kilogram. You'd need to get quality certification of course, and a sample to test on yourself. The Chinese are generally happy to do both. The above does suggest the prices we pay via iHerb are inflated.

    The "gassing up the car" analogy seems apt. The longer it is since my last round on the FP, the worse my energy & focus have become. So presumably supplies were running down.

    How do you know when it's time to reduce doses again?

    Thanks for the Lugol's tip. I'll see how I go with Iodoral, & switch if needed.

    I have a little question about folate. I suspect I’m an undermethylator. (No money for tests, but I have most of the symptoms, + my daughter is UM/high histamine.) Folate is not recommended for UMs acording to Dr Walsh. Is methyl-folate exempt from that?

    In the past I’ve done okay on modest m-folate dosages; higher dosages seem to melt me down.

    36 hours ago I began the Freddd Protocol again. I started with (for me) high doses, as the old dosages weren’t doing anything. Energy & focus & mood have all improved markedly. (Thanks!)

    The doses are:

    800 mgc m-folate three times daily
    5,000 mcg mB12 three times daily
    10,000 mcg dibencozode every few days
    (I’ll start the carnitine soon, cautiously: it was always my undoing)

    Too much for a start? Or be guided by the good early result?

    In the past a good start was always followed by a crash. So fingers crossed.

    Thanks once again for the great input.
     
    PatJ and whodathunkit like this.
  7. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,340
    Likes:
    6,526
    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    I don't get it. If not folate for undermethylators, then what??or, for whom??:confused:I listened to a long Walsh vid last year. I don't remember him being at odds with Ben Lynch. Actually, on another forum someone's just been posting about Walsh and pyroluria...I think labelling undr- and over-methylators is not necessarily useful. Fred posted lists of the 2, there are many symptoms that are in both categories. Anyway, I've not done any testing that showed me to be UM, my homocysteine levels, which I only checked once, were normal, and folate/B112 have saved my life.

    :thumbsup::thumbsup::)800mcg sounds like a wallop for starters, but you're feeling great, not wired, so sounds good.:star:
     
    whodathunkit likes this.
  8. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,340
    Likes:
    6,526
    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    I was just looking for something and came across this from Fred, from pg 17 of my compilation:
     
  9. Johnmac

    Johnmac Senior Member

    Messages:
    702
    Likes:
    405
    Cambodia
    Thanks ahmo. I found this from Walsh:

    One thing that is absolutely certain is that methionine and/or SAMe usually harm low-histamine (overmethylated persons)….. but are wonderful for high-histamine (undermethylated) persons. The reverse in true for histadelic (undermethylated) persons, who thrive on methionine, SAMe, Ca and Mg….. but get much worse if they take folates & B-12 which can increase methyl trapping.

    Needless to say I have no clue who is right. I've noticed what Fred noticed on the UM/OM symptoms lists: that many people have plenty of both. And if methylation regulates numerous genes - some good, some bad - you would expect a mixed picture to be common enough.

    I intend to cautiously use m-folate. I'll halve the present doses today, before trouble starts, now that they might have filled some of my tank.

    Thanks again for the input.
     
  10. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,340
    Likes:
    6,526
    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    I'm clearly undermethylator, cannot tolerate SAMe, need Mg, and I guess my CA needs are met by bone broth. Mfolate and MB12 gave me my life back.:balanced:
     
    whodathunkit likes this.
  11. Johnmac

    Johnmac Senior Member

    Messages:
    702
    Likes:
    405
    Cambodia
    Hard to argue with that ahmo.

    Nice to hear about getting your life back.
     
  12. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,158
    Likes:
    1,469
    Nice! Can you get the link/supplier of the DMPS he got? I will be chelating again starting after the first of the year, and will go with DMPS because DMSA gave me some problems last time I used it that DMPS is not supposed to cause. I got some from that place in South Africa that sells stuff for the Cutler protocol but it was pretty pricey, and I'd like to find a cheaper source since I plan to do it for a while, given the symptoms I had last go-round.

    As far as folate from alibaba/China: as long as you do all homework and are comfy with your choice of supplier I think it's a great idea. I would myself buy it cheaply in bulk from a high-quality reliable supplier if the opportunity arose, but my life is kind of complicated right now, anyway, and I don't have time to be chasing down and authenticating purity certificates and such. Go for it!

    Experimentation.

    Get stable (i.e., feeling pretty good on a reliable, regular basis without being on that "rollercoaster") on whatever larger dose for a few months, and then try stepping down your dose bit by bit (whatever increments you're comfy with). When you reach a smaller dose that gives you symptoms again, then increase again until your symptoms disappear. Get stable with that dose for a while. Then step down again. Etc. It can take a while.

    Also strongly suggest to try @ahmo's sublingual method with folate, if you're not already doing it. It may help you maximize your intake per dose. Which is good, especially if you're feeling a little pinch in your wallet. If you haven't already tried it, Solgar's metafolin tabs don't taste like much at all...a tiny bit sweet if anything, but nothing like a B12 tab (mB12 or adB12).

    From my experience and also from what I've read around here, I totally agree about the labeling not being useful. May actually be counterproductive. I had more symptoms of over-methylation than anything, which supposedly methylation supps are bad for you if you already over-methylate, but Freddd's protocol was exactly what I needed. Point being, if I'd paid attention to the over- or under-methylation symptoms list and worried about that, I probably wouldn't have even started the protocol. Eeep. I don't even want to think about that. :nervous:

    Glad you're feeling better already! :thumbsup: Please try not to get too discouraged by crashes. Hard not to sometimes, I know. It happened to me quite a few times before I started to get stable. I was out of work for a whole week within a couple weeks of starting the DQ.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
    ahmo likes this.
  13. Johnmac

    Johnmac Senior Member

    Messages:
    702
    Likes:
    405
    Cambodia
    I'm asking @whodathunkit - will let you know.

    I notice there are lots of suppliers of everything you can think of on Alibaba. I didn't see the Holy Grail there, but I didn't look that hard.

    Yes, the South Africans are good people but expensive. And of course they almost certainly import their DMPS etc from China in the first place.

    The Freddd Protocol is like Parsifal's horse - the one he got on & could never get off, because it never stopped moving. Titrate up too quick & you're in trouble; leave it on the same dosage too long: ditto.

    So you left it a few months between upping dosages?

    Thanks - I'd forgotten about the sublingual folate idea. I'll resume that.

    I have gone from having way less energy than my co-workers to having way more, in about a week. Literally everything is better, from libido to blood-sugar to cognition to mood. The rollercoaster continues. The up-swings are certainly good.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2015
    whodathunkit likes this.
  14. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,340
    Likes:
    6,526
    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    :woot::thumbsup:
     
    Johnmac likes this.
  15. Johnmac

    Johnmac Senior Member

    Messages:
    702
    Likes:
    405
    Cambodia
    @whodathunkit . From my friend:

    I bought 200 grams from Fortunachem ,
    <sales AT fortunachem.com>

    The price four years ago was about US $1200. I had it analyzed using FT-IR for purity (about $20) and ICPMS for heavy

    metal analysis through Doctors Data (about $200). The company does its own analysis for heavy metals but it only shows the result as less than 10 ppm. The highest heavy metal in my sample was arsenic at 1.25 ppm, which is acceptable.

    Before I bought the 200 grams I bought a small sample of 10 grams.
     
    whodathunkit likes this.
  16. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,158
    Likes:
    1,469
    Johnmac, thanks for the info on the supplier. $6/g seems like a pretty good price. That's over 20 days' worth for $6 at my highest dose.

    As ahmo said, :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

    IMO this is probably a sign you're on the right track. But it will still be ups and downs before you get stable.

    And if you ever feel like you have to stop, that's okay, too. Do what you gotta.

    Only when I got rid of my symptoms. I literally would raise my dose through symptoms until they resolved. I'm not advocating that everyone do this because tolerances are different, but it worked for me. Then sometimes I would stop because I felt pretty good and stable, but then get symptoms again after a while and have to raise again. I'd try to leave it as long as possible to see if that was my correct dose, though.

    Once I got feeling really stable on one dose (unfortunately that was the big honking 40mg/day) I left it there for a longish time to "fill up the tank", so to speak. Then I began trying to step down. Then I discovered I had to leave it that high for a while longer because I would get symptoms when I tried to go lower. Then after a while I was able to step down to 30-35mg/day, then lower, etc. It was always a process of three steps forward and two steps back.

    I wouldn't say that we can't stay at one dose too long, though...we can, if it's the amount we need to keep stable. Finding that sweet spot seems to be the biggest problem, especially when first attempting to supplement with methylfolate and the rest of the DQ.

    But again, I'm now down to 800-1600mcg/day. This time last year I was still at 40mgs, IIRC. Some days lately I forget to take it, and have no problems. Even that small dose is more of a prophylactic than something I acutely need according to symptoms. But given the benefits I've reaped from methylfolate I'll never not take it again, even if all I take is a tiny bit per day. Same with both the B12's and LCF. Not only am I healing but I'm also anti-aging. I feel better than I probably ever have, even when I was a teenager. Just in the last week or so I realized I've made some subtle gains in physical stamina, motivation, and mental tolerance, etc. Another two steps forward after one step back a month or two ago, after chelating. I think my cognition may even finally be improving. We'll have to wait and see on that, though. ;) It's not all entirely due to @Freddd's protocol and the DQ, but that's the bedrock of it. Without that, I seriously don't think I'd be doing anywhere near this well. For whatever that's worth. </soapbox>
     
    Draves, silverseas2014 and Dazey like this.
  17. Johnmac

    Johnmac Senior Member

    Messages:
    702
    Likes:
    405
    Cambodia
    Thanks again @whodathunkit. That's a good plug for the FP, which has always made me feel great - for as long as it worked.

    I wanted to wait before replying, to see whether I was going up or down.

    Since the uptick I had another crash. My guess is that halving the folate did it. I resumed at 800 mcg/dose today, & feel quite a bit better already. I'd cut it because someone said 800 seemed high, & because my ears were ringing. But 800 in ratio to 5mg mb12 doesn't seem so bad on reflection.

    Raising doses through symptoms sounds interesting. I don't seem to have symptoms as such - i.e. start-up symptoms. I just get fatigue when the doses cease working, & collapse.

    The exception is LCF meltdowns, which were major. Now averted hopefully by switching to liquid carnitine.

    Once I can be sure I have energy for 24 whole hours or more, I will try & track down a Chinese bulk supplier of both mb12 and m-folate. I can't afford to continue with iHerb on the kinds of quantities you are talking about, which may be what it comes to.

    Did Fred also ramp up to high doses (like you), then come down again? I.e. is your experience typical? (Happy if @ahmo answers this one too.)

    At one point Fred recommends taking adbcbl & mb12 together. Is that outdated now?

    Have you noticed a difference in taking the metafolin on a non-empty stomach? I’m just wondering how neurotic I need to be about the empty stomach thing, as ensuring you have an empty stomach 3 times a day isn’t that easy.

    Finally, re the above discussion: if you want to do Metafolin sublingual, do you halve your dose?

    Thanks a lot for the input. Glad things are so much better for you. I'll hopefully flail in your wake.

    Recent diary (August dates):

    18: 1st AdoCbl dose

    19: Began mB12 (5,000mg/dose) + m-folate (800mcg/dose)

    21: All my problems 75% fixed: methylation seems to 'lift all boats'
    Halved the m-folate

    23: Big changes quickly (all areas) - functioning v well

    25: Energy goes down
    Began carnitine

    27: Raised folate to 800/dose again
    Energy seems to be improving...
     
  18. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,340
    Likes:
    6,526
    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    I'm pretty sure I've read of him lowering doses. But he seems to often experiment, so don't know the circumstances.

    Current suggestion is take AdB12 weekly, 30-50mg, away from MB12.

    My evening dose is straight after I eat. No problems.

    I didn't lower doses until I had symptoms of excess folate. But you might do it the other way around.


     
  19. Johnmac

    Johnmac Senior Member

    Messages:
    702
    Likes:
    405
    Cambodia
    Thanks once again ahmo.

    I've been on only 10mg AdoCbl a week, so sounds like I should increase.

    I read somewhere that sublingual folate gave you twice the absorption, thus the question about halving the dose when you switch to sublingual.

    A few observations, for anyone still interested:

    * Currently, I get a lift after the folate, but nothing extra after the B12. That’s odd, because I am MTRR A66G +/- and MTRR R415T+/- - which supposedly mean I don’t recycle mB12 too well, and MTR A2756G +/- - which supposedly means I use it up pretty quickly when I get some. I’d expect the bigger response to be to the B12, not the folate.

    It was the reverse when I was established in the FP six months ago: I came good on B12, but not folate. I’m guessing that that was because I fill the folate deficiency early (which I'm doing now), & don’t need much thereafter.

    Indeed folate makes me crash after a while. Which fits Dr Walsh’s schema for undermethylators: rectify the deficiency if there is one, then go low or stop.


    * When I say I ‘crash’ I am principally referring to fatigue. I’ve been suffering from some form of fatigue, on and off, since my schooldays in the 1960s.

    The types of fatigue vary in subtle ways. But because all types had some adrenal symptoms (high startle response, aversions to light, noise & work), i’d concluded that fatigued adrenals were the most important cause. After my worst crash, in 2011, I bounced back quite well on starting hydrocortisone.

    However the Freddd Protocol - when I get the balance right - allows me very quickly to reduce my hydrocortisone doses. For example, last week on starting the FP again, I cut from 30 to 20 mg/day, & had more energy, not less.

    That in turn suggests that B12/folate deficiency, and/or methylation, underlie the adrenal problem. (So the latter wasn’t the fatigue’s ‘root cause’ after all.)


    * The most striking aspect of the FP, when it’s working, is that everything improves at once. Libido, energy, mood, cognition, motor skills, social skills…


    * Alpha lipoic acid (which I use in the Cutler chelation protocol) sparks me up quite well. However two years ago it freed up way too much mercury, & I was getting massive thiol sulphur reactions - e.g. bedridden from a bit of onion juice on my lettuce. The Rich protocol (which is where I started with all this) fixed that in days. There was no methyl B12 in that protocol - only methyl folate.


    * Quite a big discovery this year is that I have pyroluria. Taking the zinc & B6 for that banished anxiety overnight - notably the ‘dread’ kind - and softened up my skin nicely. It didn’t do anything else much. IMO everyone with anxiety & social anxiety should try out the zinc & B6, as 10% of the population is pyroluric, according to Dr Walsh’s database.


    Sorry for the randomness of the above - you never know which bits others will find useful.
     
    matt3n and whodathunkit like this.
  20. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,158
    Likes:
    1,469
    Yes, IIRC.

    I wouldn't be anally neurotic about it. It id indeed difficult to have a completely empty stomach 3x/day AND remember to take supps during that little window of time. But as often as you can until you get a bit better is probably a good thing to shoot for. But then, if you go sublingual, stomach empty shouldn't matter. Might want to experiment with it a bit.

    Sorry you crashed again. :grumpy: But based on what you've been telling us about your experiences recently, you might consider raising instead of decreasing your dose next time you start feeling "off". As long as you're comfortable with that. I didn't necessarily always get what Freddd calls "start up" symptoms...I would raise methylfolate just when I started feeling not quite right. I'd also hope it would avert a crash. Sometimes maybe it did (no way to know for sure) and sometimes it definitely didn't. And in the beginning I would raise mfolate while decreasing stuff like LCF that was verifiablly giving me anxiety or whatever.

    I also remember one time when I was still in high dose mfolate that I started feeling not right. I didn't want to take any more mfolate so I started looking at what was missing from my regimen. Turns out I had forgotten to take my LCF for a week or two. I added it back in and it was like magic. Interestingly, shortly after that was when I was quickly able to raise LCF dose from <250mg/day to 500mg then 1000mg.

    And, FWIW, every time I crashed, when I recovered I felt a little bit better than I did before. Is that happening for you?
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page