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Unfolded Protein Response and A Possible Treatment for CFS

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by mariovitali, May 3, 2015.

  1. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    After looking the thread by @adreno regarding Clostridium Butyricum i researched more on Butyrate and i continue the conversation here so that the Thread is not derailed.

    Butyrate appears to be a very promising agent. Let's see why :


    So Butyrate will be added to the list of Supplements that induce HSP-70 along with Resveratrol, Curcumin, TUDCA and Selenium which are a main part of this regimen.

    My question is : Is it possible to bring homeostasis (and treat CFS) just by supplementing with Clostridium Butyricum?

    Perhaps some sufferers will feel great just with this Supplement and others may need the extra boost of HSP-70 from supplements such as TUDCA, Resveratrol, etc.

    Nevertheless, it sure deserves a try.
     
  2. adreno

    adreno Learned helplessness

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    It might not be enough, or you might not need it at all. First of all, you need fibers, resistant starch in particular, which are fermented into SCFAs, including butyrate. But if your clostridia species are decimated by antibiotics for example, you will not be able to create enough butyrate, and in that case taking CB could help.

    You might be interested in looking at this resistant starch primer, by @Gestalt :

    http://www.gestaltreality.com/2014/02/27/resistant-starch-a-concise-guide/
     
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  3. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    Great, i will have a look. Thanks!
     
  4. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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  5. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    Thanks @Ema


    I am also looking at Butyrate closely, i will try to find forum members that have tried it and ask them how they felt.
     
  6. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    FYI @adreno, @Ema, @JPV

    First, it has been discussed that CFS is a form of Pseudo-Amyloidosis


    http://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/1471-2377-5-22

    Amyloid-β is a key component.


    the importance of GSK-3 :


    Now Curcumin :



    And Resvreratrol


    Symptoms associated with Amyloidosis:



    and TUDCA


     
    Last edited: May 10, 2015
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  7. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    @mariovitali: I'm interested in your theory, and bought some TUDCA to try. I either take daily or have on hand everything else in your regimen so will be putting it all together starting today. I'll let you know if I experience any benefits. I'm already doing pretty good from methylation and tweaking my gut, but am very concerned about liver support, since many of my problems seem to point to "liver congestion". I've put the poor thing through the wringer, for sure.

    I have a couple/few questions for you.

    Based your research, what's the amount of time we should wait to drink alcohol after stopping TUDCA? I don't drink much but very occasionally I take a glass or two, and will be taking a trip in the fall where I will probably be imbibing fairly heavily at least one night. It would be good to know.

    Also I read that TUDCA during alcohol consump or after helps decrease liver damage, but TUDCA consumption before drinking may increase it. Based on what you know, is this true?

    Finally, you say to stay away from L-carnitine. But I've found L-carnitine-fumarate to be a critical supplement in my recovery so far. Why do you say stay away from l-carnitine and does this include the fumarate form?

    Thanks for any help!
     
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  8. trails

    trails

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    In looking at the directions and product warnings on my bottle of TUDCA, I note that it says: "Do not use for more than 30 days without a 90 day break." Of course, as a dietary supplement, the same bottle recommends taking one capsule four times a day, while @mariovitali seems to be advocating only 2 capsules per day. Anyone have any theories as to why they'd include this "warning"?

    @mariovitali, how long have you been taking TUDCA?

    My bottle is made by Olympus Labs in the US. 250mg per capsule.
     
  9. Bluebrid

    Bluebrid

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    Bingo! Please do not confuse crocin with an acetaminophen product. Tylenol produces oxidative stress -- not eliminates it. Saffron and Gardenia are herbs that contain high amounts of crocin. Gardenia is a better, cheaper choice since it also contains crocetin, another Xanthophyll Carotenoid.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocin[/QUOTE]
     
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  10. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    @whodathunkit

    Regarding alcohol consumption, i do not know what is the amount of time that has to pass in order to drink. I just do not drink at all (unfortunately) but i will start soon once i stop TUDCA.

    L-Carnitine could be beneficial but for a person who had the Post-Finasteride Syndrome such as me, it wasn't good. Perhaps now it is. The same applies for D-Limonene which is a potent P450 Induction and anti-Inflammatory agent (but it is a potent HmG-CoA Inhibitor).


    It may well be a fact that CFS Sufferers do not have any problem taking foods/supplements which are HmG-CoA inhibitors so i will reflect that to my original post.



    @trails
    I am taking 500 mg for about 2 months now and i am planning to stop it. I have no idea why they used this warning.


    @all

    Also, for us with PFS it is beneficial to upregulate SRD5A3 through Spinach Consumption. Spinach contains Dolichols which is a product of Mevalonate Pathway and N-Linked Glycosylation. N-Linked Glycosylation is very important for proper Protein Folding.

    What i am trying to say here is that quite possibly we all arrived (=Finasteride Users, Accutane Users and CFS Sufferers) in this situation from a different route...but the mechanism behind our problems is Protein Misfolding and ER Stress.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2015
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  11. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    @all

    I just noticed that i am not allowed to change my original post anymore.


    Please be aware that HmG-CoA inhibitors (listed on my first post) may not be a problem for CFS Sufferers so my suggestion is to try and see whether these affect you negatively or not.
     
  12. adreno

    adreno Learned helplessness

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    I have been taking antihistamines lately, and feeling worse. So I did a little searching:

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167488913002516


    On the other hand, fexofenadine (an antihistamine) suppressed ER stress:

    http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/early/2014/12/23/jpet.114.217844


    Perhaps some antihistamines are good, while others bad (in terms of ER stress)? I'm taking ebastine now, but perhaps I should try fexofenadine instead.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2015
  13. nandixon

    nandixon Senior Member

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    @adreno

    Anecdotally, fexofenadine (Allegra) can have a very mild stimulating effect in some people that might be helpfulful. (I'm not referring here to the paradoxical-type, uncomfortable stimulating effects that some H1 antihistamines can sometimes have.)

    Although that anecdotal stimulating effect didn't hold up in this study here:

    Comparing the stimulant effects of the H1-antagonist fexofenadine with 2 psychostimulants, modafinil and methylphenidate

    I do find fexofenadine to be very slightly stimulating, although at 1/4 the usual 24 hr dose. Any higher amount feels tiring, though. Note that fexofenadine uses the p-glycoprotein transporter (gene = ABCB1; see my signature), and so sensitivity to dosing can be partly related to that. (Ranitidine/Zantac uses that transporter as well.)

    It's funny about the study above, because methylphenidate (Ritalin) and modafinil (Provigil) both put me to sleep. But just to emphasize, the stimulating effect that fexofenadine might have in some people is generally only very mild.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2015
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  14. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Oh, goody. I just this week switched from Zyrtec to Allegra. Must be meant to be...watch out, IL-8!
     
  15. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    Dr Goldstein has some ideas about why that happens.
     
  16. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    You can ask the moderators to change your settings to allow for extended editing time.
     
  17. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    @Ema Thanks,

    Being on a forum is very supportive, the only negative thing is that knowledge gets dispersed within our conversations.

    I didn't know that this is possible so Thanks again :)
     
  18. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

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    Yeah, that's one of the most frustrating things about a forum like this. So much valuable information is scattered all over numerous message threads that it's very hard to get a handle on it. There must be some better method to aggregate all this information in some dynamic manner.
     
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  19. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    There is a new feature that might be a 1st step towards it.
     
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  20. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    Please have a look at the following screenshot :

    Screen Shot 2015-05-13 at 22.39.03.png

    This technology essentially extracts Topics out of Text. I would be more than happy to deploy this solution to Phoenix Rising Data -Free of Charge- with the hope of extracting Knowledge out of the Thousands of Conversations.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2015
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