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Unfolded Protein Response and A Possible Treatment for CFS

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by mariovitali, May 3, 2015.

  1. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl ME is not MUS

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    I have posted again to answer question c. I had suspected polio aged 4, a severe bout of measles and mumps. I also took about twice as long as any of my peers to recover from infections, I recall.The onset of the ME followed a tetanus vaccine shortly before a very severe infection (not identified) with encephalitis which became severe after having my timber-framed house sprayed with organochlorines.
     
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  2. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    @Countrygirl

    Makes sense. The Theory discussed here is that this incident has generated ER Stress. If you have Methylation problems then that means that the handling of ER Stress is even more impaired. If you are getting stressed easily then add yet another fact with negative impact.
     
  3. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    @Countrygirl @Ema @adreno @JPV @Gondwanaland


    Since you are most active in this Thread, i would really appreciate if you could read the following because i believe it is very important information. ( this was added on the original post today) :

     
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  4. adreno

    adreno Learned helplessness

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    Point e) would be pathogens in general, not limited to viruses. My post was actually about bacteria.
     
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  5. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

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    You might want to include any number of environmental toxins to the list...
     
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  6. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    @JPV That's Great, Thanks. Added to original post.
     
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  7. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

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    Here's another study...
    If I'm not mistaken infertility seems to be a major component of Post-Finasteride Syndrome. Perhaps there are several different environmental toxins at work here causing a cumulative effect. The ones you are focusing on may be the "straw that broke the camel's back" but might not be the only or even the main cause.

    BTW, the premise of the BBC series "Utopia" revolves around a major corporation colluding with the government in a population control scheme that involves putting additives in the food supply that causes infertility.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2015
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  8. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    @JPV

    It could be, although the most probable mechanism is that we all used Propecia for hairloss. The chain goes like this :

    Finasteride -> 5AR inhibition -> SRD5A3 downregulation -> Impaired N-Linked Glycosylation -> Improper Folding of Proteins -> ER Stress -> Unfolded Protein Response



    and this :



    Add to the 'mix' that i have impaired Methylation / BH4 Production, i took Finasteride and therefore the "bucket" filled up quite fast. The result was a major crash (=UPR) and then it appears that my body felt into a vicious cycle that had to be stopped.

    Do you see how this all makes sense?
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2015
  9. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

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    I understand, I just think it would be hard to point to any single toxic environmental factor when we are exposed to so many of them. There's always the possibility that Propecia just dealt the final blow to a bucket that was already almost filled. I've never used it but have similar symptoms so it certainly wasn't a factor in my illness.

    If my time on this forum has taught me anything, it's that you shouldn't be too confident in any theory because at some point you're going to have a major hole punched into it. I think that a lot of the theories that people come up with work by an entirely different mechanisms than what they have imagined. The body and it's interactions are just too complex to define so easily. If this wasn't the case, we all would have been cured by now.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2015
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  10. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    I see your point there @JPV, i do get carried away easily don't i? ;-)

    It's just the fact that i tried everything, spent thousands of Dollars to Supplements/Doctors and after so many attempts suddenly everything works.

    Time will tell.
     
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  11. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

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    I understand, I think everyone gets that way when they've made such a breakthrough. You obviously know how debilitating these sorts of conditions can be and seem to be sharing your knowledge out of empathy for others. I think it's very generous for you to come here to share it with other people in need. Just don't be disappointed if people are hesitant to try something new as so many here have been disappointed with such things in the past.

    My supplements should arrive today so I should have something to report back sometime next week.
     
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  12. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    @JPV

    Thank you, i really appreciate what you said and everyone's comments and feedback.


    Good Luck with the regimen.
     
  13. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

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  14. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    @JPV

    That is very interesting, Thank you!


    Since you will be trying the regimen, try to slowly add each Supplement so you know what works and what doesn't.

    I would try with the following order :


    1) Methylation ( i am assuming you already do that according to your mutations if they are present) , Magnesium (ensure Calcium Homeostasis), D3, Vitamin C

    2) Selenium

    and then, the "Big Guns"

    4) Curcumin (Use empty tablets of 250 mg, fill them up and have 2 daily with food or use at rice/salads sprinkled)
    <wait 3 days>
    5) TUDCA
    <wait 3 days>
    6) Resveratrol
     
  15. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

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    @mariovitali, LOL, I already took everything, but the Curcumin, all at once yesterday

    I pretty much already had everything on your list except for the TUDCA and Resveratrol, which I ordered from Amazon. I have some Turmeric in the kitchen but I think it may not be the most effective way to get Curcumin. Looks like there's only 136mg of Curcumin per tablespoon of Turmeric. How critical do you suppose the Curcumin is?

    I also noticed, on the solvepfs.com forum, that you mentioned that you're going to be trying to cut down on the supplements that you're taking and TUDCA was first on your list. Is this because you feel that it's not as effective as the other items or does it purely come down to cost? All the other supplements have been widely used by many people on this forum, with generally marginal success, however I've never heard of anyone here experimenting with TUDCA. I have a sneaking suspicion that if this protocol is indeed effective, TUDCA may be the key component.
     
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  16. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    @JPV ,

    LOL

    It's great that you had a look over solvepfs as well.

    Please notice that i said in my post in this forum that the regimen i am proposing for CFS is somewhat different from what you saw on the solvepfs forum. The difference being in upregulation of SRD5A3 gene through Spinach consumption (Spinach contains Dolichol). SRD5A3 is a key gene for proper N-Linked Glycosylation and this could also be a key component (and perhaps i should clarify this to my first post).

    You are right, taking Curcumin is a bit of a problem. Meriva Extract is very potent and i it could be a DHT Inhibitor. What i usually do is to take empty capsules and put Turmeric in them and then have two of these with Food.

    Unfortunately, this is all experimental so i am not in any position to know if CFS Sufferers should also get Dolichols from their diet. However, N-Linked Glycosylation is a key function of Proper Protein Folding within the Endoplasmic Reticulum.

    Apart from TUDCA, please notice that the regimen is not just about supplements, because It lists specific Topics/Actions/Foods that should be avoided (DHT Inhibitors, P450 Inhibitors, HmG-CoA inhibitors, MSG, Aspartame, etc)


    Good Luck!
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2015
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  17. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

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    @mariovitali, I did see the dietary recommendations. I've pretty much been following the Perfect Health Diet for several months now. I also cut out a lot of histamine containing foods so I have a pretty limited diet consisting of mainly beef, chicken, white rice, potatoes and various vegetables such as lettuce, zucchini, carrots, onions, etc.. I rarely eat any fruits.

    I'm also taking Resistant Starch, in the form of Potato Starch, and a Japanese probiotic called Miyarisan that contains Clostridium butyricum. This is one of the best things that I've found for my condition so far. I feel that modifying gut microbiota may well prove to be one of the more promising treatments to provide relief from numerous chronic health conditions.

    Of the tree main items, TUDCA, Curcumin and Resveratrol, how would you rate them in order of importance?
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2015
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  18. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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  19. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

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    My focus with Clostridium butyricum is in increasing Butyric Acid, for gut repair, and the possibility that it may act as a potential antagonist against such pathogens as Candida albicans and H. pylori, as I suspect I may be suffering from some sort of fungal infection.

    Of course, as I mentioned before, these interventions may work in either different ways than what we suspect or on multiple biochemical functions at the same time. Even with scientific papers backing up the research, It's all still guesswork. Bottom line, as much as we may like to intellectualize these things... I think it's still just a hit-and-miss random process. Either we get lucky, or we don't.

    One thing for sure, I strongly believe that inflammation is a major contributor to most chronic illnesses. Anything that helps to alleviate it is bound to be helpful.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2015
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  20. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    @JPV,

    FYI, It is possible that some days after you start the regimen you will get flu-like symptoms. The best way to describe it is that i felt as i was about to get sick but i never did. I also had a similar feeling when i started the Methylation protocol.

    This lasted for about 10 days if i am not mistaken.


    And something else which i believe is very interesting : I can hear better than i used to. I confirmed it with a special app that is used as a Dog Whistle. In other words the frequency response of my ears has improved!

    I know that i shouldn't get excited lol


    Caloric Restriction induces HSP-70 (So is Curcumin, Resveratrol and TUDCA)
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2015

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