1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
August 8th - What is the one thing about suffering with severe ME that the world needs to know?
Andrew Gladman brings our coverage of the Understanding & Remembrance Day for Severe ME, airing the voice of patients ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Under the Eight Ball movie - Conspiracy theory?

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by _Kim_, Dec 15, 2009.

  1. _Kim_

    _Kim_ Guest

    I just read about the world premiere of a new movie Under the Eight Ball. I don't know anything more about it, but watched the trailer video on the site. I'm sure that this is not the 'true' source of my CFS - the closest I got to inhaling toxins was running behind the mosquito truck when I was a kid :eek: Any thoughts?

     
  2. fresh_eyes

    fresh_eyes happy to be here

    Messages:
    900
    Likes:
    5
    mountains of north carolina
    Dang, I ran behind that same truck! :eek: (That malathion mist felt so lovely...)
     
  3. _Kim_

    _Kim_ Guest

    What the heck was wrong with us, fresh_eyes. The whole neighborhood of kids would run through the fog. Whhhheeeee. And our parents just laughed. :eek:
     
  4. fresh_eyes

    fresh_eyes happy to be here

    Messages:
    900
    Likes:
    5
    mountains of north carolina
    Ah, those were the days...:eek::(:confused::D
     
  5. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

    Messages:
    854
    Likes:
    693
    UK
    Malathione and other nasties



    Hi Kim and Fresh Eyes,

    I'm puzzled.... I don't know what to make of your reference to malathione. In my neck of the woods organophosphates like malathione are a major cause of M.E./CFS. Dr Jonathon Kerr and Professor Behan confirm this. A few years ago, with the help of Dr John Gow of Glasgow, we gave it considerable publicity as so many of us became ill after repeated low-dose exposure to OPs. Prof. Behan said in The Journal of Nuitrition and Enviromental Medicine: OP (malathione) exposure,'.... in some way prepared the patients for the development of M.E.' I guess you know all this....if not I have some more info. :(

    I assume the film you mentioned is based on the biological warfare experiments that were carried out by Fort Detrick and Porton Down on the US and Britain. The Ministry of Defence claims that the chemicals and infectious agents they have repeated rained down on us from aircraft, ships and lorries over decades were harmless. Not so, apparently. (The BBC rooted out a lot of the information and broadcast it in the programme Inside Out. The Sunday Observer filled in the details.)

    I wonder if the above has anything to do with the information about M.E. being placed under the offical secrets' act for the next 80 odd years. Too late for us.........I would dearly like to know, but we will all be six-foot under by then. :(
     
  6. fresh_eyes

    fresh_eyes happy to be here

    Messages:
    900
    Likes:
    5
    mountains of north carolina
    Gosh, Countrygirl. I am feeling like a not-very-well-informed CFSer, but I was not aware of that. :( (They should have a smiley that looks more horrified.) Yes, more info please!

    ps And is that BBC program you mention available online?
     
  7. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

    Messages:
    854
    Likes:
    693
    UK
    Organophosphates and M.E.



    Hi Fresh Eyes,

    Yes, I will gladly give you all the info I can. It's been such a big problem here and for some years I helped with the campaign to alert people to the dangers of OPs and its connection to ME. I assumed that you would all know about the findings of Professor Behan and Dr Jonathon Kerr in relation to melathione (and other nerve agents of the same group) and M.E. You sure you aren't pulling my leg........just a bit....huh? Can't believe you folks in the US don't know about it. I have tried to find info about this on the forums, but haven't so far. :confused:

    I can't jot it all down now........too knackered and brain-dead, but when the remaining brain cell shows some sign of life .....hopefully tomorrow.....I'll get back to you. Nighty night for now. :)
     
  8. _Kim_

    _Kim_ Guest

    Me too. Didn't know. Whenever you get the time Countrygirl, that would be great. I'm sure fresh_eyes and I aren't the only ones that haven't heard.
     
  9. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

    Messages:
    854
    Likes:
    693
    UK
    OPs and other nasties



    Hi Kim,

    I certainly will. Still haven't got to bed .....have been reading the disgraceful news on the M.E. Association noticeboard about how the Court Case against N.I.C.E. was lost.......need to take some deep, calming breaths.........Must remember to pump iron tomorrow to rid myself of my aberrant illness beliefs....(is that the right word?....brain cell has collapsed.)

    Wesseley is such a cuddly bunny......:D

    With that happy thought....I'm off......for another sleepless night........
     
  10. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

    Messages:
    854
    Likes:
    693
    UK
    Hi Athene,

    Just about to hit the hay, but wanted to say how sorry I am to hear what a horrible thing happened to your mother. Can you say any more about her illness? Did her doctor help? What happened?

    Will get back to you tomorrow.

    Night, night.....again.
     
  11. Katie

    Katie Guest

    I became aware about organophosphates seven years ago when I started finding forums about ME. Some groups who have ME symptoms due to OP poisoning have been renamed as having Sheep Dip Syndrome as the chemicals were found in sheep dip. My husband knows more about the history as he's done a lot of research into it.

    I've not personally had contact with OP but the damage chemicals found in bioweapons used during the gulf war and in pesticides are shared. But then chemicals designed to attack organic cells just can't be harmless when you're using quantities vastly greater than your average ant killer.

    I wouldn't call it a conspiracy at all.
     
  12. shrewsbury

    shrewsbury member

    Messages:
    1,540
    Likes:
    55
    Athene - how horrid about your mother. I can't imagine a facefull of pesticide. I'm so sorry. Take care of yourself now with regards to living beside your beautiful(?) lemon grove. More incentive to buy organic when I can afford to.

    Hi Countrygirl,

    I'm so glad you brought this information to the forum. I've never heard of it before. Looking forward to the links. Is that Dr Kerr of the current gene expression work?

    Boy - thank goodness for the internet. We're finally getting all the info on the disease compiled in one place - here on the forums!

    So does this mean that the movie is actually a great media coup? Does it mention ME/CFS?

    Have you gone to bed? Could you leave the site? Not read 'just one more'????

    Wishing you sweet dreams

    islandfinn:)

    ETA - this is when I wonder about being able to change thread titles. I see why it's important to keep an accurate record of what happened when. But with internet searches being based on how often something is 'hit', would keeping a title like this maybe reinforce the idea of it being a conspiracy? Is it within forum protocol to make a post saying one is going back to change something and what it is changed fron and to and why? Okay - I'll post this question in the nuts and bolts section. if:)
     
  13. Mark

    Mark Acting CEO

    Messages:
    4,528
    Likes:
    2,004
    Sofa, UK
    Starts to look rather like it's just us UK folk who know all about organophosphates! The main diagnosis I've preferred, over the years, was of Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (MCS). Until the XMRV news broke, I would have said pretty confidently that the whole thing was about environmental/chemical toxicity. Actually, come to think of it, that's probably why I've been so far removed from the CFS world until now, because I've been more interested in the MCS world. (It's a far less loaded diagnosis, emotionally speaking, and incidentally my MCS treatments are the exact same as some of the best CFS treatments: B12, Co-Q-10, Magnesium, D-Ribose, etc etc. It's a variant of the same thing, just not the one where you get constant colds and flus; TH1 vs TH2).

    How XMRV will relate to MCS is a really interesting question. Of course we're still waiting for news of those 'additional factors' necessary for XMRV to become CFS/XAND, so that's a possible role for the toxins in CFS. But without something like that, the XMRV discovery seems to suggest that sensitivity to chemicals, foods, moulds etc, is a symptom of XMRV infection, rather than CFS being caused purely by toxic exposure.

    It might actually fit together quite neatly. The controversy over MCS is really based on the scientists saying "but these levels of exposure are tested and are definitely safe" and the patients saying "so how come they make me sick?". XMRV has an answer: when your immune system kicks into action in response to a low level of a specific toxin, it pumps out the relevant NK cells etc, which happen to contain 'blanks' with an XMRV payload...and because they're blanks, maybe it just keeps on firing them...which would then explain why very small amounts of a given substance can have significant effects.

    On the other hand, another possibility is that all the fuss about organophosphates and MCS etc will turn out to be an error, an incorrect assumption based on green ideology. Time should tell: we're now in a position to start sorting out all the different strands and figuring out all the other related conditions as well.

    XMRV totally upturns all my cherished beliefs about MCS and environmental toxins being the cause of CFS. It was quite a mental shift to turn away from that whole theory and move onto something else I know nothing about: retrovirology. But once I'd seen the compelling evidence, I made the shift fairly quickly. If only the scientific world was as flexible!
     
  14. _Kim_

    _Kim_ Guest

    Hi if, I made the title because of the promo info that I posted on the first thread - that the government is/has used chemicals as experiments on innocent beings and that this is the "true" cause of...over 300 illnesses. Sounds like the kind of statement made by conspiracy theorists. It premieres tomorrow, so maybe we will find some film reviews out there soon.

    From what I saw on the trailer, there was no mention of organophosphates...that just spun out of my recall of running behind the mosquito truck and what Countrygirl shared.

    I would like to move this to a new thread, if Countygirl is up to it about the connection between ME/CFS and OPs. And keep the question of conspiracy theory?? in the title. Especially as conspiracy theories are not allowed on this forum. This movie is in kind of a grey area - I can always modify the title if we learn more.
     
  15. shrewsbury

    shrewsbury member

    Messages:
    1,540
    Likes:
    55
    Hi Kim, All sounds good to me. Right - right - it's the movie that sounds like it's based on a conspiracy theory and that's what your title asks.

    Think the new thread on organophosphates is a great idea.

    if:)

     
  16. starryeyes

    starryeyes Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,513
    Likes:
    4
    Bay Area, California
    Doctors Nancy Klimas and Mikovits have said that XMRV and Herpes viruses like EBV often lie in latency in our bodies until triggered by something......

    I used to run daily out in almond orchards that were behind my dorm in college for about a year before I came down with ME. I recall that so many patients with ME were once runners and we all felt there had to be some kind of connection.

    Sheesh! Who needs to worry about chemtrails? :cool:
     
  17. Samuel

    Samuel Bedbound with NO DOCTOR

    Messages:
    221
    Likes:
    2
    I was exposed to Malathion in my bedroom when I was a child. Would like to know more.
     
  18. _Kim_

    _Kim_ Guest

    new thread started

    Hang in there samuel. Countrygirl will be back with some info on this tomorrow. I started a new thread
    Organophosphates (i.e. melathione) & M.E./CFS
     
  19. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

    Messages:
    854
    Likes:
    693
    UK
    Conspiracy theories



    Hi everyone,

    I'm so glad that Kim has started a new thread for the OP connection to M.E. I really was concerned about it being found under a title that used the word 'conspiracy' anywhere in the text....because that it ain't.

    The germ warfare experiments carried out in Britain and the US, of course, are great for those who do enjoy over egging the facts and we may never really know the full truth.

    In 1997 the Military of Defence (MoD) released documents which disclosed that germ warfare simulation trials had been carried out across the UK (especially over the south) for decades. The same, they explained, has been happening in the US. On 21st April 2002, The Observer - a quaility newspaper - wrote, 'The MoD turned large parts of the country into a giant lab to conduct a series of secret germ warfare tests on the public.' The chemical and biological agents used were believed to be harmless and possibly are - more or less .....bacilus globigi, (mimics anthrax, I think), serratia marcesiens (have I spelt that right?) and huge amounts of zinc cadmium sulphide, which I have read is now understood to cause cancer. Bit of a whoopsy on the part of the MoD, if that is true. The same agents were used over the US. Serratia M. I understand is now known to cause pneumonia, UTIs, endocarditis and some other nasties. (a number of US folk were hospitalised after one experiment and one died).

    Who knows if any of the above has anything to do with our horrible lurgy? The people in Lulworth Cove claim the experiments caused a cluster of birth defects, neurodeformities etc. This was officially denied. Like the Camelford disaster .....Prof Wesseley made sure of that.

    One thing I read that may be pure conspiracy theory is that Fort Detrick created a new leukaemia retrovirus in 1970........:eek:

    Anyway, I do hope someone from this forum will be able to see the film .....as long as they take a large pinch of salt with them.

    Now to get back to reality ...the OPs. Unfortunately, I have to take a ride on an ambulance this afternoon and will have to spend hours in the hospital. So please be patient folks, I will get back here asap.:)
     
  20. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

    Messages:
    5,111
    Likes:
    3,364
    N. California
    the "dickhead" with the poison

    I was exposed to a very toxic organo-chlorine substance in 1985-87, when my idiot neighbor repeatedly sprayed his fence to control termites with penta-chloro-phenol. This caused my third big relapse into CFS/MCS, which I have not yet fully recovered from.

    He also sprayed his big phallic bushes regularly, with some other toxic pesticide. And just in case someone doesn't know what a penis bush looks like, here it is:
     

    Attached Files:

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page