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ME/CFS and Beating the Clock
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under methylation,over methylation, and precursers (laymans version)

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by markmc20001, Jan 16, 2010.

  1. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Rich,

    I would like to repost your recent post elsewhere for all interested parties to see as I have in the past. I do believe that it is vital that all these things get airing.

    This is of course of concern to me as it would to anybody. I do have a an annual prostate exam, due next month for the current one. In the past I have had a completely clean bill of health on this, nothing even ambiguous. The dose of mb12 I take has been very carefully arrived at by titration over a nearly 7 year period. The current dose size and frequency is the minimum dose needed to make progress at reversing the nerve damage going to my feet and arms. The dose size is the minimum needed on a daily basis to stop progressive neurological deterioration. It is very sensitive to anything including light exposure of mb12. The day I started it (7.5mg doses), I wasn't able to walk and that was progressing rapidly. If it hadn't cleared up I would have been in a wheelchair wearing diapers. I had been sufferring intermittant incontinance and episodes of drop foot and loss of motor control and sense of position of my leg for 5 years and getting worse. I have had a normal life restored to me. Let's be clear on the stakes that I am playing for

    In the context I am playing in CNS/CFS look like a small subset and an early stage of the problem. It gets much worse from there. I had problems back to 1 year old. I had FMS for 10 years before the CFS kicked in. I had CFS for 5 years before I started devloping signs of SACD. I had signs of SACD for 6 years before footdrop, incontinence and other things happened. I had those for 4 years before I started having visual deterioration.

    As far as other people go, I have outlined a titration path and criteria for determining if more would benefit them. That doesn't mean people read and follow that. My estimate is that perhaps 5% need to go above normal subligual doses. Anybody in a wheelchair or headed for one with urinary and fecal incontinance from these things benefits from these sizable doses.

    There is substantial evidence that some cancers are in fact caused by a deficiency of mb12 and flawed DNA replication. A number (at least half a dozen last I heard) of cancers including colon cancer is being investigated for just such contributing factors, and more are being added to that list.

    There is evidence mounting of the antitumor effects of methylcobalamin which don't necessarily reconcile with other research. Also, the effects of low CSF/CNS levels of cobalamins in CFS/FMS/Alzheimer's look like smoking guns to me. Now it may actually be that best effectiveness for that is actually 5mg (or whatever, that's what a study used) itrathecally twice a year or something like that rather than building a steep diffusion gradiant by upping serum levels is vastly superior.

    Patents exist for the idea of attaching a chemotherapy compound to the cobalt in place of the methyl or other groups to carry it into the heart of each cancer cell and then destructing it.

    Amounts in excess of 5mg sublingual tablet a day have only apparantly benefited me neurologically. Everything else cleared up on that plus 3mg adb12 once a week. The other cofactors though were critically important. Some people have a dramatic clearing of brainfog on 15mg a day of adb12. My optimum appears to be 18mg of adb12 once a week timed for joining the mb12 injection in the diffusion gradiant.

    A problem for presenting any kind of information is that it gets twisted out of shape very quickly. As mb12 has been available for 12 years commercially in the USA and elsewhere if it has some side effects as suggested by this article that might be long enough for these things to start turning up. The beauty of the internet is that it allows a person to extract information being done in millions of individual parallel experiments.

    I have been on the side of moderation and balance, using the minimum that has the necessary beneficial effects. I have partially designed but not yet written software for tracking the changes and effects of all symptoms and problems across a lifetime and dozens of substances including vitamins, drugs and so on, all at the same time, designed to integrate all of the information across potentially millions of people in a distributed processing environment and extracting unique, common and everything in between patterns. I believe that with this that it might be possible to predict who would develop CFS/FMS etc as an adult from childhood history. The patterns are there. My problem is not the design, but that while I was out of the software business and disabled, 100% of the tools have gone through 3 rapid generations of evolution. In 1986 I was writting leading edge articles on leading edge software tools and helping invent object oriented progamming and analysis. Now I'm having to learn how to do displays all over again and am just another beginner in many ways. I have a 20 year hole in my memory. My main project became solving my own problem that was taking my life and mind away while I still had the abilities to do so. I was running out of time as I could hardly read or type any more on the day I decided to take mb12. I had near constant sensory hallucinations of all varieties as my neurology was breaking down. The environment got very noisy you might say.

    The specifics of the biochemistry are very important. I'm going for solving the overall of it with millions of details to be filled in. It's a non statistical basis. Statistics homoginize the pattern details into non existance. Statistical medicine was killing me. I will start searcing for the patterns involving prostate cancer and mb12 and see what I can find.

    We all have to make choices. If a high dose active b12 therapy can give me 30 years of high quality life I would never have had otherwise, bringing me out of a literal hell, and then I get a cancer I might have gotton anyway (what percentage of men die with prostate cancer present?) believe me it is well worth it. I would have spent my last years in a wheelchair in diapers, unable to read and a deteriorating mind, starting a few years ago. All my systems were breaking down. It was highly unlkiely that I would have ever survived to get and maybe die from prostate or any other cancer. Undoubtably mb12 saving lives will mean more people die of other things. That is part of the statistical fallacy. You squeeze out death one place and it pops up somewhere else. In the meantine it has given me 5 years of quality life with possibly decades more to come. Choosing to stay sick to avoid possibly dying of something else possibly decades in the future is a choice we make every day. How many of you avoid charcoal grilled meat or frenchfries or baked breads with crispy crusts or a load of other things known to cause cancer, or heart disease or something. Keep perspective. You pays your money and makes your choices. And 100% of it is fatal. Nobody gets out of this life alive. Driving your car is probably the most dangerous thing most people do and changing a lightbulb in a ceiling fixture may be number two. And taking a walk in sunlight without sunblock. Now there is a known hazard. Keep a perspective.

    And as the time traveler Ferdinan Feghoot said to his son at the cannibal's feast "One man's meat is another man's poi, son"
  2. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, freddd.

    Thanks for the response. Yes, please feel free to repost my message.

    Best regards,

    Rich
  3. daniariete2000

    daniariete2000

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    Sorry but what does it mean to be overmethilated ? It means that I don't have a methilation block and so if I'd take B12 and folate I would get the problem worse ??
  4. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    I'm not sure, but I think it happens because there are two interconnected cycles that are malfunctioning. If only one cycle is being raised and/or it is raised too far, the "stuff" it is producing can't be used properly in the cycle that is still malfunctioning. So you get an excess of the "stuff", which probably causes its own special symptoms.

    Sorry I don't have more details. It's a new concept that I'm trying to understand while dealing with PEM-induced brain malfunction :p

    I think this is the reason that it is generally recommended that we only take a normal dose of folate, while taking tons of B12. The combination of too much of both could overdrive the methylation cycle, but an excess of folate isn't beneficial, whereas an excess of B12 is beneficial. So it makes sense to limit the folate while going hog-wild on the B12.
  5. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    I don't know about overmethylation. I find it hard to believe this is possible. I would have to see the biochemistry and I don't think this is known? But I want to say something about this...I get in states where my moods are extremely affected by what I eat - particulalry wheat. What I understand this is caused by is - what is the word-? when your gut is more permeable than it should be so that you are absorbing undigested food. Undigested wheat is particulalrly offensive and affects the brain. I fixed this problem for myself by taking zinc. But I fall into it again from time to time. When I am under stress I don't eat right near as I can figure and then I have to take supplements to recover. Just something to consider. The reason zinc works is that your skin is made out of zinc and if you don't have enough, your skin is made with big pores like swiss cheese. The gut is skin. Big holes mean undigested food gets in.

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