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Unable to tolerate even the smallest dosage B complex. Help!

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by bigmillz, Aug 9, 2016.

  1. bigmillz

    bigmillz Senior Member

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    I've been working on getting on a steady dose of B vitamins for a while. It's been going great, with regards to B9 and B12. The rest, in a B complex, has been exceptionally difficult.

    I started with the Thorne B Complex #12, and also tried the Douglas B Complex. After 1-2 days, I was very "wired and tired," irritable, and just worn down feeling. It was really unpleasant, and I had to stop both. I've also tried Jarrow's B Right with the same result. I tried these in half doses, and also with magnesium citrate, with the same unfortunate result.

    After a break to build up some cofactors, I now finally got my hands on Biotics Research's B-100 complex, with very mild doses of everything. Plus, a serving size is 3 tablets, to it's even easier to take less.

    Alas, 1 tablet brought on the same effects (just to a lesser degree). The next day I tried another tablet to confirm, and they're definitely back. I'm on edge, needed a nap, and just generally not benefitting from it.

    Am I missing something? Why can't I tolerate any B complex? Any suggestions? Do I need to tough it out for a period of time?

    Link to the B-100 ingredients: http://bioticsresearch.com/sites/default/files/productlabels/1133-web_0.pdf
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2016
  2. frederic83

    frederic83 Senior Member

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    Might be Niacin (B3), I had a problem with this one. Do you have a pure B3 supplement to try?
     
  3. bigmillz

    bigmillz Senior Member

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    Nope, but I can get some. I was thinking of trying B6 alone too.

    What was your reaction to niacin like?
     
  4. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    I would bet on the B6, especially since it is P5P.
    At least that's my experience, B6 was probably the thoughest vitamin to reintroduce in the system.

    I had the same problem with any B complex for years. The trick for me was starting with low doses of B12 and folate, after several months I was able to tolerate the B complex again, although I switched to a sublingual form because of poor digestion and absorption.

    It might not be the case for you but you could trying isolating those two vitamins first and see if you can tolerate them.

    good luck
     
  5. bigmillz

    bigmillz Senior Member

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    Thanks again for your help with this @PeterPositive it's been a challenge!

    I finally got my hands on the Nature Made B complex last night, and gave it a shot today. 3 hours in, tons of energy, but still very moody. I will say, it's a little less "wired and tired" than the other ones. Assuming P5P (in all the other complexes) is equivalent to more B6, then the NM complex is the lowest in B6 I've tried so far. Maybe still too much though.

    I went ahead and ordered all the individual B vitamins to try to nip this one in the bud. If I can narrow it down, I'll take the other B's in normal doses, and the culprit in very small amounts while working up.

    Maybe it will just take time with the B12 and folate, like it did for you.
     
  6. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    @bigmillz your restricting factor(s) could be mineral(s) or hormone(s)
     
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  7. bigmillz

    bigmillz Senior Member

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    Hmmm...any suggestions at what to look at first? In searching about this I did come across many of your posts, they've been very helpful!
     
  8. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I try to report about my experience in detail hoping it can help others, I am glad it did!

    I started with a multimin (locally compounded with very low doses) and it helped enormously - Zn, Cu, Boron, Mn, Se - then I had to exclude one by one and try each one separately. Iron has been very helpful lately, but I only supplement with it when I see my blood levels are lowered.

    My hormones are all messed up and they are hard to fix. My hormone dr isn't very bright.

    I have been studying the link in my sig "Balancing Nutrients" for years and find it very helpful.
     
  9. bigmillz

    bigmillz Senior Member

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    This is particularly interesting:
    That said, I have also tried taking magnesium with B6 (in a B complex still), with no big difference in results.

    As today pans out, the Nature Made B Complex is definitely the least "aggressive" of the ones I've tried, and the closest to being tolerable. That said though, if there's a limiting factor I'd like to address it. But I also feel like I might just need to adapt.

    When I started on magnesium months ago, it knocked me out so badly I was leaving work early. I was convinced I'd never be able to take it. Finally I found that if one is severely deficient, it can take some time for NMDA receptors to adapt. Sure enough, I toughed it out for a week, and now I barely notice any effect when taking it every night.
     
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  10. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    How interesting! When I was severely Mg deficient (very low below range Mg in urine) I tried several forms of magnesium (glycinate, aspartate, citrate, chloride, sulfate) but it was only Mg oxide I could tolerate, and my liver felt so happy with it! It lasted about a month and then I could never take it again with positive effects.
     
  11. bigmillz

    bigmillz Senior Member

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    Were you able to take any of the other forms afterwards? For me, only citrate has been positive. Oxide never did much, glycinate still makes me feel beyond exhausted and very irritable, and malate gave me more energy but also made me very irritable after a few days.

    On another note, I'm getting the same worn out feeling today on the Nature Made B complex as I did on the Biotics B-100, around the same time too. Very tempted to take a light nap right now.

    I'm not taking any B complexes tomorrow as a control test. Then Friday the individual B's should show up, and I'll begin trying those one day at a time.
     
  12. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    No

    I had this fatigue you describe from taking MB12 on its own, and adding Mfolate didn't change it. I think for most people taking potassium helps, but I could never tolerate any form of potassium supp. I had to be off of B vits for several months for it to improve, and MgO helped a lot back then.

    One of the things that the B vits do and is largely overlooked is related with insulin sensitivity. I wish I had known it when I started supplementing. So my recommendation is to test your blood sugar at home - fasting and at every hour after eating. Also get an insulin assay + OGTT test.

    I am sure at some point I was terribly hypoglycemic back then.
     
  13. bigmillz

    bigmillz Senior Member

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    Interesting you mention this...I've had hypoglycemic type issues for a while now. Eat a meal (identical to others with me), experience a very significant crash within the hour. Often following a surge of energy. White rice and potatoes set this off the most for me.

    I did test my glucose at home back in the day, and it never really showed any drops that I was anticipating though. That was always the weirdest part.
     
  14. frederic83

    frederic83 Senior Member

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    Gastrointestinal symptoms. But that was years ago I took it. Now, I don't tolerate anything. I tried B2 a week ago, I had more inflammation in the colon due to IBS...
     
  15. bigmillz

    bigmillz Senior Member

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    I haven't had these, at least to a noticeable degree.

    I'll report back in a few days as I start testing them individually.

    Also I wonder if my inability to tolerate this "mystery" B vitamin has anything to do with my tendency to get extremely moody hours after eating sometimes. That's something I've been chasing for a while but haven't reached many conclusions.
     
  16. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I have read about it linked with blood glucose variations - sorry don't remember where. In your case an insulin assay could be insightful.
     
  17. frederic83

    frederic83 Senior Member

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    I'm moody too depending on what food I eat. In my case, this is link to inflammation, and particularly in the colon (stomach too). I can my irritated, depressed, tired, or a need for a nap. I have to be very careful with the food, this situation is very tiring. For the mood, one of the best food for me is chocolate, but not every kind. Over time, I'm more sensitive.

    When I want to try a supp, I never buy a blend, always a single supp at a time. So I exactly know which molecule is causing a problem with me.
     
  18. bigmillz

    bigmillz Senior Member

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    I'm going to look into this once I get a few other things cleared up for sure.
     
  19. bigmillz

    bigmillz Senior Member

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    Same, I try to avoid combinations, with the exception of the B complex because it's easier to get everything in a smaller dose.

    I'm really curious to find out which it is - but I do suspect B6.
     
  20. bigmillz

    bigmillz Senior Member

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    Checking in here...I've tested over half the B vitamins individually, one day at a time. The B complexes were giving me an adverse reaction (low energy, bad mood, weary eyes, slightly hoarse voice, some soreness [or as I call it, feeling "worked"]) within about 6 hours of dosing, so I figured this was a suitable timeframe. Here are the notes from my logs so far:

    1. B1 – 50mg – mood turning sour within about 4 hours, feeling very worn out by 5 hours in, easily frustrated, exhausted, becoming clumsy with basic tasks
    2. B2– 100mg – no noticeable reaction, yellow urine
    3. B3 - (untested)
    4. B5 – 100mg – no noticeable reaction, maybe a bit more energy
    5. B6 - 50mg x2 – burst in energy, then dropped a bit until 2nd dose. No irritability, slight insomnia. I suspect the high/low in energy exasperates the issues from the B1
    6. P5P - (untested)

    Looks like B6 wasn't it, much to my surprise (although the drop in energy between doses may have exasperated it). I can't find a single thing online about thiamin causing this sort of reaction. I know it is one of the sulfuric B vitamins, but since I started reintroducing sulfur/thiol foods, I've done just fine.

    Any ideas on why I'd have such an issue with B1 and what I can do about it? Even low doses still created an issue, just to a lesser extent. Are there any other forms I could try? Any related issues I could look into?

    Thanks for the help.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2016

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