1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
The Pathway to Prevention (P2P) for ME/CFS: A Dangerous Process
Gabby Klein gives an overview of the P2P process, shedding light on the pitfalls with advice as to what we can do in protest ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

uk incapacity benefit beware!

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Gerwyn, Feb 4, 2010.

  1. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    Under new guidelines the private company ATOL which is in charge of reducing incapacity claims wont condider the cognitive,neuroendocrine components of ME only its physical limitations-----overwhelming fatigue wont count If you can pick up something from the floor get out of a chair unaided once! walk unaided for 200m and a few other minor things-you will be declared fit for work----the trick is that you cant touch your toea or kneel and or bend to pick up something from the flloor that counts as 15 disability points and from then you are ok Your assessment begins in the waiting room and does not end untill you leave the building! The criterea are available on line If needed i,m willing to post them
     
  2. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,387
    Likes:
    5,902
    That's madness.

    I'm 'able' to do those things, yet have just been granted DLA (generally for those even more disabled than incapacity) and certainly could not gain employment.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2013
  3. Marco

    Marco Old blackguard

    Messages:
    1,400
    Likes:
    1,083
    Near Cognac, France
    I appreciate Gerwyn that you are pointing out how ludicrous this system is and how it clearly discriminates against those with a chronic and fluctuating illness, and not suggesting that anyone should try to cheat the system regardless of its faults. ME patients get a bad enough press and are often lumped in with the feckless, malingering and the outright benefit cheats. The unfortunate fact is that everyone gets tarred with the same brush as the minority and as a result the system gets 'tightened up' to the detriment of the genuinely ill. The cheats unfortunately will always find a way to play the system.

    The ME charities should be banging down the DWP's door over this.
     
  4. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,387
    Likes:
    5,902
    Following my experience with the benefits agencies, I find it hard to feel that there's anything wrong with 'cheating' them anymore. There are so many stupid, arbitrary rules; being judged by poorly informed and uninterested staff, that it would be like 'cheating' in a street fight while your opponent's trying to take your eyes out.

    I like a debate, and spent eighteen months going through my DLA application, explaining the subtleties and complexities of CFS and how it relates to their guidelines (which they often have no interest in) and after a number of appeals I finally got a high pay-out (more than I was expecting). But I could just as easily have received nothing (and was totally turned down a number of times). I'm not sure that my approach was any more moral than just lying to them in the first place - it would have saved them the cost of all those tribunals. I had a feint hope that I was educating them - not likely they saw it that way.
     
  5. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    I don,t generally mean to mislead anyone.They were deliberately twisting my words to fit their criterea to stop my incapacity benefit---In effect they were trying to cheat me--I was aware of their criterea which many other people would not have been and i simply saw these "harmless little questions" at the end coming and would not play their game.If anyone should be ashamed of themselves its the government for trying to reduce benefit costs in such a typically underhand manner----people are now being declared fit if they can pick a penny off the floor---ONCE or can raise their arms over their head! If you look at the new criterea you will be astonished!
     
  6. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    Here are the criterea
    The test - physical disabilities
    Walking on level ground with a walking stick or other aid if such aid is normally used.
    Descriptors Points
    Cannot walk at all 15
    Cannot walk for more than a few steps without stopping or severe discomfort. 15
    Cannot walk more than 50 metres without stopping or severe discomfort. 15
    Cannot walk for more than 200 metres without stopping or severe discomfort. 7
    Cannot walk more than 400 metres without stopping or severe discomfort. 3
    Cannot walk more than 800 metres without stopping or severe discomfort. 0
    No walking problem 0

    N.b. only the highest of the scores from walking and walking up and down stairs counts towards the total.
    Walking up and down stairs
    Descriptors Points
    Cannot walk up and down one stair. 15
    Cannot walk up and down a flight of 12 stairs. 15
    Cannot walk up and down a flight of 12 stairs without holding on and taking a rest. 7
    Cannot walk up and down a flight of 12 stairs without holding on. 3
    Can only walk up and down a flight of 12 stairs, if he goes sideways or one step at a time. 3
    No problem in walking up and down stairs. 0
    Sitting in an upright chair with a back, but no arms.
    Descriptors Points
    Cannot sit comfortably. 15
    Cannot sit comfortably for more than 10 minutes without having to move from the chair because the degree of discomfort makes it impossible to continue sitting. 15
    Cannot sit comfortably for more than 30 minutes without having to move from the chair because the degree of discomfort makes it impossible to continue sitting. 7
    Cannot sit comfortably for more than 1 hour without having to move from the chair because the degree of discomfort makes it impossible to continue sitting. 3
    Cannot sit comfortably for more than 2 hours without having to move from the chair because the degree of discomfort makes it impossible to continue sitting. 0
    No problem with sitting. 0
    Standing without the support of another person or the use of an aid except a walking stick.
    Descriptors Points
    Cannot stand unassisted. 15
    Cannot stand for more than a minute before needing to sit down. 15
    Cannot stand for more than 10 minutes before needing to sit down. 15
    Cannot stand for more than 30 minutes before needing to sit down. 7
    Cannot stand for more than 10 minutes before needing to move around. 7
    Cannot stand for more than 30 minutes before needing to move around. 3
    No problem standing. 0
    Rising from sitting in an upright chair with a back but no arms without the help of another person.
    Descriptors Points
    Cannot rise from sitting to standing. 15
    Cannot rise from sitting to standing without holding on to something. 7
    Sometimes cannot rise from sitting to standing without holding on to something. 3
    No problem with rising from sitting to standing. 0
    Bending and kneeling.
    Descriptors Points
    Cannot bend to touch his knees and straighten up again. 15
    Cannot either, bend or kneel, or bend and kneel, as if to pick up a piece of paper from the floor and straighten up again. 15
    Sometimes cannot either, bend or kneel, or bend and kneel as if to pick up a piece of paper from the floor and straighten up again. 3
    No problem with bending and kneeling. 0
    Manual dexterity.
    Descriptors Points
    Cannot turn the pages of a book with either hand. 15
    Cannot turn a tap or control knobs on a cooker with either hand. 15
    Cannot pick up a coin which is 2.5cm or less in diameter with either hand. 15
    Cannot use a pen or pencil. 15
    Cannot tie a bow in laces or string. 10
    Cannot turn a sink tap or the control knobs on a cooker with one hand, but can with the other. 6
    Cannot pick up a coin which is 2.5 cm or less in diameter with one hand, but can with the other. 6
    No problem with manual dexterity. 0
    Lifting and Carrying.
    Descriptors Points
    Cannot pick up a paperback book with either hand. 15
    Cannot pick up and carry a 0.5 litre carton of milk with either hand. 15
    Cannot pick up and pour from a full saucepan or kettle of 1.7 litre capacity with either hand. 15
    Cannot pick up and carry a 2.5 kg bag of potatoes with either hand. 8
    Cannot pick up and carry a 0.5 litre carton of milk with one hand, but can with the other. 6
    Cannot pick up and carry a 2.5 kg bag of potatoes with one hand, but can with the other. 0
    No problem with lifting and carrying. 0
    Reaching.
    Descriptors Points
    Cannot raise either arm to put something in the top pocket of a coat or jacket. 15
    Cannot raise either arm to his head to put on a hat. 15
    Cannot put either arm behind his back to put on a coat or jacket. 15
    Cannot raise either arm above his head to reach for something. 15
    Cannot raise one arm to his head to put on a hat, but can with the other. 6
    Cannot raise one arm above his head to reach for something, but can with the other. 0
    No problems with reaching. 0
    Speech.
    Descriptors Points
    Cannot Speak. 15
    Speech cannot be understood by family or friends. 15
    Speech cannot be understood by strangers. 15
    Strangers have great difficulty understanding speech. 10
    Strangers have some difficulty understanding speech. 8
    No problems with speech. 0
    Hearing with a hearing aid or other aid if normally worn.
    Descriptors Points
    Cannot hear sounds at all. 15
    Cannot hear well enough to follow a television programme with the volume turned up. 15
    Cannot hear well enough to understand someone talking in a loud voice in a quiet room. 15
    Cannot hear well enough to understand someone talking in a normal voice in a quiet room. 10
    Cannot hear well enough to understand someone talking in a normal voice on a busy street. 8
    No problems with hearing. 0
    Vision in normal daylight or bright electric light with glasses or other aid to vision if such aid is normally worn.
    Descriptors Points
    Cannot tell light from dark. 15
    Cannot see the shape of furniture in the room. 15
    Cannot see well enough to read 16 point print at a distance greater that 20cm 15
    Cannot see well enough to recognise a friend across the room. 12
    Cannot see well enough to recognise a friend across the road. 8
    No problem with vision. 0
    Continence (other than enuresis (bed wetting)).
    Descriptors Points
    No voluntary control over bowels. 15
    No voluntary control over bladder. 15
    Loses control of bowels at least once a week. 15
    Loses control of bowels at least once a month. 15
    Loses control of bowels occasionally. 9
    Loses control of bladder at least once a month. 3
    Loses control of bladder occasionally. 0
    No problem with continence. 0
    Remaining conscious without having epileptic or similar seizures during waking moments.
    Descriptors Points
    Has an involuntary episode of lost or altered consciousness at least once a day. 15
    Has an involuntary episode of lost or altered consciousness at least once a week. 15
    Has an involuntary episode of lost or altered consciousness at least once a month. 15
    Has had an involuntary episode of lost or altered consciousness at least twice in the 6 months before the day in respect to which it falls to be determined whether he is incapable of work for the purposes of entitlement to any benefit, allowance or advantage. 12
    Has had an involuntary episode of lost or altered consciousness once in the 6 months before the day in respect to which it falls to be determined whether he is capable of work for the purposes of entitlement to any benefit, allowance or advantage. 8
    Has had an involuntary episode of lost or altered consciousness once in the 3 years before the day in respect to which it falls to be determined whether he is capable of work for the purposes of entitlement to any benefit, allowance or advantage. 0
    Has no problem with consciousness. 0
    The test - mental disabilities

    If you score 10 points or more on this test you are incapable of work.
    If you score between 6 and 9 points then 9 points will be added to the physical assessment score to see if you pass the 15 points threshold.
    If you score less than 6 points on this test the points are not counted.
    Completion of tasks.
    Descriptors Points
    Cannot answer the telephone and reliably take a message. 2
    Often sits for hours doing nothing. 2
    Cannot concentrate to read a magazine article or follow a radio or television programme. 1
    Cannot use a telephone book or other directory to find a number. 1
    Mental condition prevents him from undertaking leisure activities previously enjoyed. 1
    Overlooks or forgets the risk posed by domestic appliances or other common hazards due to poor concentration. 1
    Agitation, confusion or forgetfulness has resulted in mishaps or accidents in the 3 months before the day in respect to which it falls to be determined whether he is incapable of work for the purposes of entitlement to any benefit allowance or advantage. 1
    Concentration can only be sustained by prompting 1
    Daily living.
    Descriptors Points
    Needs encouragement to get up and dress. 2
    Needs alcohol before midday. 2
    Is frequently distressed at some time of the day due to fluctuation of mood. 1
    Does not care about his appearance and living conditions. 1
    Sleep problems interfere with his daytime activities. 1
    Coping with pressure.
    Descriptors Points
    Mental stress was a factor in making him stop work. 2
    Frequently feels scared or panicky for no obvious reason. 2
    Avoids carrying out routine activities because he is convinced they will prove too tiring or stressful. 1
    Is unable to cope with changes in daily routine. 1
    Frequently finds there are so many things to do that he gives up because of fatigue, apathy or disinterest. 1
    Is scared or anxious that work would bring back or worsen his illness. 1
    Interaction with other people.
    Descriptors Points
    Cannot look after himself without help form others. 2
    Gets upset by ordinary events and it results in disruptive behavioural problems. 2
    Mental problems impair ability to communicate with other people. 2
    Gets irritated by things that would not have bothered him before he became ill. 1
    Prefers to be left alone for 6 hours or more each day. 1
    Is too frightened to go out alone. 1

    Back to top arrowBack To Top
    email iconenquiries@covlaw.org.uk telephone icon024 7622 3053 Disclaimer Accessibility statement
    Last updated & checked: 20/10/2009 Copyright 2009 Coventry Law Centre
    Registered charity No.1087312. Registered company No. 4149673.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page