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Turpentine for healing

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by Rand56, Dec 13, 2013.

  1. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Yes, I just looked up tea tree, and this does seem to one of the essential oils that you should not take internally. So one or more of its constituent chemicals must be toxic or problematic

    No I don't, but I also saw one or two studies in which they claimed turpentine is anti-inflammatory. However, turpentine is routinely injected into animals in order to create inflammation, often to test the efficacy of anti-inflammatory drugs in combating that turpentine-induced inflammation. So it is not clear how and when it acts as a pro-inflammatory and how and when it acts as an anti-inflammatory. The paper you cited says that "oxidized turpentine is considered to be an anti-inflammatory agent," so that may be one explanation for the discrepancy: perhaps only in the oxidized form does it become anti-inflammatory.

    The paper you cited — which I found interesting to read — also says that alpha-pinenes were found to inhibit AChE (= acetylcholinesterase), which is interesting, because acetylcholinesterase inhibitors seem to be of benefit for ME/CFS, especially for sleep (see this study).


    Certainly I don't think you are going drop dead if you take small doses (a few drops) of turpentine for a few weeks, provided you treat it as an essential oil, and always dilute these drops in some cooking oil before swallowing. You are normally advised to dilute your few drops of essential oil in 15 to 30 ml (= 1 to 2 tablespoons) of ordinary cooking oil. Essential oils should never be taken neat.

    The main alpha- and beta-pinene ingredients of turpentine are also found in reasonable amounts in rosemary essential oil, so you might want to consider taking rosemary essential oil instead, as a safer version of turpentine. Around 22% of rosemary essential oil is alpha-pinene.

    Juniper berry essential oil is even better, as this contains around 44% alpha-pinene (ref: here).

    So I think either rosemary or juniper berry essential oils are a much better alternative to turpentine.

    Rosemary and Juniper berry essential oils are listed in the FDA's list of essential oils that are generally regarded as safe (GRAS), so you can take these internally, again in dosages that are measured in drops.

    Alpha-pinene is found in many other essential oils, as you can see here, but I think juniper and rosemary may have some of the highest percentages (unless you can find another essential oil that contains more).

    You can buy essential oils quite cheaply on eBay: see here.


    According to the paper you cited, the greatest danger in turpentine is the carenes ingredient. This study details some of the toxic effects of carenes. I think the CNS symptoms are the most concerning; I'd prefer not to ingest toxins that affect my brain!
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
    Rand56, MeSci, alex3619 and 1 other person like this.
  2. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

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    I don't know what negative info you read about her, but just in case it had anything to do with her being "run out of town" so to speak, and her as a practicing MD did not want to follow "it's our way or the highway" rules....there is always 2 sides to every story.

    I'm not totally defending her because I don't know "every" detail of what transpired, but in all fairness to her, I found this. Just a snapshot of what went on and she does go into more detail on another podcast but I won't post that......

    "Alternative Doctors are Persecuted

    The following three stories demonstrate how aggressively conventional medicine persecutes doctors that prescribe alternative treatments.

    A Story of Three Persecutions
    In 1994 New York alternative healthcare advocates helped pass the Alternative Medical Practice Act designed to help guarantee that people would have access to alternative medical doctors by barring the State of New York from taking away the licenses of Alternative Medical Doctors just because they practiced alternative or non conventional medicine. Despite the passing of this legislation, the Medical Board bureaucrats who found a way to avoid the intent of the law. Alternative medical doctors were once again targeted and eliminated from medicine. Here are three examples:


    Dr. Jennifer Daniels, MD of Syracuse was brought up on charges after successfully treating a patient with diabetes using only diet and exercise. In spite of a highly publicized study unveiled by the Secretary of Health & Human Services proving that diet and exercise was more effective than drug treatment. Eventually Dr. Daniels got her license back after it was suspended for two years, but the cost was devastating. The doctor was financially depleted and no medical employer was willing to hire her despite impeccable educational & medical credentials(Harvard BA, University of Pennsylvania MD). She is planning on leaving the country And that is a successful case."

    http://alternativecancer.us/doctors_per.htm


    I don't know when this text was written, but she currently lives in the country of Panama.
    South likes this.
  3. Kina

    Kina Moderation Team Lead

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    No @Rand56 , I wasn't referring to her losing her licence to practice.
  4. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

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    Ok fine I did not know. Can you post whatever it was you found out? If there is anything else I'm interested to know.
  5. Kina

    Kina Moderation Team Lead

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    I said I wasn't impressed with some of the things I have read about her but I don't think it's necessary for me to post what I found out. Generally, it's to do with some of her health advice which appears to be not so healthy at times. Even if this doctor was perfect, it wouldn't change that she is advocating using turpentine/paint stripper to better one's health, yet in the same breath maligns mainstream doctors for prescribing poison. Seems just a tad ironic to me.
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  6. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    Thanks for mentioning Homeopathic turpentine leela. :)

    pleased to read of your success.

    i have recently had a very favourable success with Ledum 200c. This remedy is from rosemary. i think.

    @Rand56,

    thanks for your posts. I had never heard of this before and i always like to nose what people are doing! :)

    Golden
  7. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

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    I finally finished reading thru that projectavalon thread that I posted in my opening post. Geeesh it's 18 pages long!! <correct...I have no life LOL>. Quite honestly I think some of these people are nuts for doing the amount and frequency of dosing that they are doing. Who knows, despite some short term positives people are reporting, there could be longer term consequences. To each their own I suppose but I would be too afraid to do the amount some of these people are doing.
    MeSci and golden like this.
  8. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    Dabbling in the only pharmaceutical i use very occassionally - Vicks - is as far as I would go with turpentine LOL

    Sweet Joy of Vicks though

    Golden
  9. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    Vicks (and tea tree oil also, I think) are potent vasodilators which can be very bad for people with some type of OI and/or low blood volume. That includes a lot of people with ME/CFS.

    My worst MCS-type rxns in my early ME/CFS days were to Vicks, Hall's, tea tree oil, and turpentine. I wasn't ingesting them, ;) just being in the same room breathing them gave me awful symptoms.

    I can't imagine wanting to ingest any of those products, particularly turpentine. :vomit:
    MeSci likes this.
  10. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Apparently when terpenes (alpha-pinene is a terpene) become oxidized (and they are very easily oxidized on air exposure), they become allergenic. Refs: 1, 2.

    This is why perfumes are often problematic as far as chemical sensitivity is concerned, as terpenes are commonly used in perfumes. You spray the perfume on your skin, but the terpenes oxidize in the air, and then become allergenic.
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  11. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    That explains a lot. :) Too bad none of my docs could figure that out. :rolleyes:

    I suspect terpenes from a variety of sources, but particularly the cleaning solutions used in the copy center of my college, to be an environmental factor in my developing ME/CFS. Daughter and I are definitely very sudden onset viral cases, but I was struggling with the terpenes problem for a number of years prior to that. I wonder if the terpene exposure affected/damaged my immune system....?
  12. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I suspect it may be sort of the other way around: ME/CFS is a disease where the immune system is shifted to Th2, and you become more chemically sensitive to allergens when you are stuck in the Th2 immune response. So this is why all sorts of allergies that we never had before suddenly appear when we develop ME/CFS.


    It says here that oxidation products of commonly used fragrance terpenes (limonene, linalool, geraniol, linalyl acetate) have been identified as potent sensitisers in animal tests.

    D-limonene is found in citrus fruits, and has a nice orange scent, linalool is found in many flowers, and has a floral scent, geraniol is found in rose oil, and has a rose scent, linalyl acetate is found in lavender.

    Some of the above are used in number of products like soap, shampoo, and hand creams. But I don't think fresh unoxidized compounds are allergenic; it's only when they are exposed to air for some time.

    The eight individual fragrance chemicals that are generally used to test for fragrance allergy are listed here.
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  13. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    Interesting! That would suggest that the true onset of my ME/CFS was long before the flu-like viral illness that crashed both daughter and I the first time. This would not surprise me, especially if the immune dysfunction turns out to be largely (or even partially) genetic. The theory in that case would be that the immune system slowly fails eventually leading to multiple infections which cause much of the damage in ME/CFS.
    rosie26 likes this.
  14. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Or it could be that you had some comorbid conditions before you developed ME/CFS that were themselves shifting your immune system to the Th2 mode. There are a number of conditions that cause a Th2 shift, in addition to ME/CFS.
  15. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    True enough. :) So many possibilities, so little time (and research funding).
  16. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    no, i agree. its why i won't ever be vaccinated again too.

    i have had severe MCS and never a problem with vicks or tea tree oil. i vaguely recall becoming sensitive to certain essential oils such as frankincese someone insisted foisting onto my feet :-/

    my naturopath told me to use euculyptus but i said i will stick to my occasional vicks.

    i am currently really enjoying rosemary lavender in oil burner. Rosemary is very clean and refreshing.

    Golden
  17. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    I'm OK with essential oils (except patchouli, which makes me feel very uneasy), my theory being that the oils have antioxidant properties. Maybe the allergenic compounds are released over time, but not so fast that they overwhelm my detox system.
  18. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

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    about Ginger.....

    "The major active ingredients in ginger are terpenes (quite similar to the chemical action of turpentine) and an oleo-resin called ginger oil. These two, and other active ingredients in ginger, provide antiseptic, lymph-cleansing, circulation-stimulating, and mild constipation relief qualities along with a potent perspiration-inducing action that is quite effective in cleansing the system of toxins."

    http://www.herbwisdom.com/herb-ginger-root.html

    I know ginger is a 5-HT3 antagonist which gives it's anti-emetic properties.

    From that Review I posted in post #18 in this thread, it says the a-pinenes in turp inhibit the 5-HT3 receptors.
  19. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    @Rand56

    Lemon Essential Oil for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

    I recently discovered that lemon essential oil is a very potent 5-HT3 antagonist, much more so than ginger, and 5 to 10 drops of this oil taken internally will quickly stop any nausea or travel sickness you may have. There is a very interesting discussion on lemon essential oil here, in which they say lemon essential oil contains 10-15% beta-pinene, and that beta-pinene is the ingredient responsible for the 5-HT3 antagonism.

    A few months ago I actually did some experiments taking 10 drops of lemon essential oil daily, as a treatment for ME/CFS. This study and this study (both pilot studies) found that a 5-HT3 antagonists provided a significant improvement in fatigue severity in ME/CFS patients. However this RCT study found no benefit of a 5-HT3 antagonist for ME/CFS.

    Though interestingly, this paper states that the effects of 5-HT3 antagonists follow a bell-shaped curve, which means that up to a certain point, as you increase the dose, the effects get stronger, but after that point, if you further increase the dose, the effects actually get weaker. So you'd need to work out what was the optimum dose, and then go no lower or higher than that dose, otherwise you start to lose the effects of the 5-HT3 antagonism. This also means that any researchers studying the benefits of 5-HT3 antagonists for ME/CFS would need to make sure that they did not give too high a dose, else the benefits will fail to manifest.

    5-HT3 antagonists had a good effect in reducing fatigue in hepatitis C; see here.

    No significant results to report from my taking of 10 drops of lemon essential oil, apart from a little reduction in anxiety and mental tension. 5-HT3 antagonists have been observed to sometimes have anti-anxiety effects.



    Fennel Essential Oil for Irritable Bowel Syndrome

    I had much more success with fennel essential oil (which has a really nice smell of aniseed, if you like that) as a treatment for my IBS-D. Not only did fennel essential oil bring very noticeable improvements in my IBS, but these improvements were maintained even after I stopped taking this oil. I took a dose of 5 drops per day of fennel essential oil, diluted of course in 15 ml of cooking oil, and swallowed.

    Unfortunately fennel essential oil is not on the FDA safe list, and I expect this is because this oil contains low levels of the carcinogens estragole and methyl eugenol, though this report says these pose no significant risk for cancer at the normal therapeutic doses used for essential oils.

    Anethole is the main active ingredient in fennel oil (and in star anise essential oil as well), with fennel essential oil containing around 71% anethole. Anethole has potent antimicrobial properties, and has anti-cancer effects as well.

    Anethole is the aniseed flavor-giving ingredient in the alcoholic drinks sambuca, ouzo, pastis, Pernod.

    What I may do is buy some pure anethole from a chemical manufacturer, and use that instead of fennel essential oil.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
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  20. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    edited this as i can't find a link.

    I dont think i could bring myself to ingest essential oils. But if i did, i would make sure to buy an extremely expensive version of the essential oil to better ensure high quality.

    The cheaper essential oils can contain a lot of crap.

    Best
    Golden
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2013

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