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Tryptophan/Kynurenine Pathway in Fibromalgia and ME/CFS

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by SwanRonson, Jul 6, 2015.

  1. SwanRonson

    SwanRonson Senior Member

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    Moving this discussion from the news forum here.
     
  2. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    Not sure if you wanted me to answer this message here, but I will.

    This thread gives details of my decision to take 5-HTP, and the results, and associated things.
     
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  3. Tunguska

    Tunguska Senior Member

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    Someone suggested that pathway in a thread of mine. All sources considered, straight tryptophan does appear a bad idea to me. I figure its safest use is to balance out a low-tryp food source such as gelatin used before bed. 500mg is about the amount in a scoop of whey. Melatonin is likely the least harmful in the short term.

    There's another aspect, I first read about in the PHD: http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/09/curing-arthritis-and-depression-with-diet-and-antibiotics/
    Goes too far in my limited opinion but usually his research has some backing.
     
  4. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    my doc now tests kynurenic acid levels. this is an excerpt from article:
    http://www.nature.com/articles/srep26192

    i think what happens in HIV infection is partly happening to us:


    "the accumulation of metabolites produced during tryptophan catabolism is characteristic of HIV infected patients, compared with SLE and CDADt+ patients and healthy controls. Emerging data suggest that the excess of tryptophan degradation in HIV-infected patients results from the induction of IDO-1 (present in dendritic cells and macrophages of the mucosa) by a local pro-inflammatory environment or possibly as a result of the presence of some bacteria9,11. There is increasing awareness that the excess kynurenine might negatively affect different processes that are key to mucosal immunity9, and induction of this pathway is being repeatedly linked with adverse clinical outcomes22,23,24,25,26. It is therefore plausible that the human enzyme responsible for the degradation of tryptophan is induced in HIV patients by components of the gut microbiota. In addition, gut bacteria might contribute to the amount of kynurenine in the mucosa and the gut environment by assimilating and accumulating it (and its degradation products) inside bacterial cells. Thus, gut bacteria might impact the availability of kynurenine in the gastrointestinal tract, thereby decreasing its effects in mucosal and systemic immunity9. Interestingly, kynurenine degradation products accumulated at higher levels among immunological ART responders (Table 1). As the kynurenine pathway is at the crossroads of metabolism and immunity and plays a crucial role in the establishment of inflammation while also playing an opposing role in the control of acute and chronic infections26,27, these data indicate that bacterial communities are key players in the maintenance of not only chronic inflammation in chronic HIV infection but also possibly in immune recovery."
     
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  5. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    ...and most of us had IBS before the CFS....
     
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  6. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    i tried to find out what happens when HIV patients are given fecal transplants - do their sCD14 go down? but i only found one study recruiting for this and no publications.
     
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  7. SwanRonson

    SwanRonson Senior Member

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    What test specifically does she/he do? Is that a urine test?
     
  8. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    i didn't give any urine. i gave only blood and stool. ..but i am pretty sure its a blood test


    edit: on second thought, maybe i gave urine and don't remember. because it looks like Great Plains lab does it with urine
     
  9. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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  10. SwanRonson

    SwanRonson Senior Member

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    I wish there were stats on how many CFS people had a disrupted FUT2. I'm a non-secretor myself and it just seems that a disrupted or unbalanced gut biome is our lot in life. We find a few bacteria that work for us in the early years when we are young. Then something happens and that mix changes to great harm.

    Who knows what the original mix was.
     
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  11. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    my doc just tested quinolinic acid and ammonia too due to my brain fog not really improving much (as well as kynurenic acid, stool analysis, sCD14 as usual)

    most of the papers about this topic are unreadable for me in my present state ..i wish someone could explain this in detail.....as it appears very important with regards to neuroinflammation.

    my doctor also told me to take zeolite.

    i read some lyme boards and did come across someone with "lyme" saying that her brain fog finally improved years after starting this product. i imagine it helps ammonia levels.
     
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  12. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    absolutely. my mothers family has mental illness and anxiety...my fathers family has bowel disease. i was not breastfed, born via c-section, and had repeated ear infections as a child and given loads of antibiotics. seems i was ripe for some kind of disease.
     
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  13. SwanRonson

    SwanRonson Senior Member

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    What is zeolite? This? https://www.zeolite.com/
     

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