1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
ME/CFS: A disease at war with itself
We can all agree that ME/CFS is a nasty disease, particularly in its severe form, but there are abundant nasty diseases in the world. What is unique and particularly confounding about our disease is that so much controversy surrounds it, and not only surrounds it, but invades it too.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Trying Probiotics to fix gut (feeling very depressed/fatigued)

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by kraken, May 25, 2014.

  1. kraken

    kraken

    Messages:
    49
    Likes:
    2
    Some background: I've been trying a methylation protocol for a couple of months but eventually had to stop. It went pretty good initially but experienced more and more side effects like tied to stomach issues but primarly severe shortness of breath, I really believe I need to fix my gut/stomach problems before I even attempt with methylation again (as recommended by Yasko) and thats what I'm trying to do now. I've had increasing problems like IBS/diarreha/bloating/indigestion/alcohol intolerance and a myriad of other stuff through the past 3-4 years but never took any real action on it.

    Recently found out from my 23andMe results that ALL my 3 FUT2 gene variants is homozygous (which is tied to abnormal gutflora). Also I have a lot of defects which recommended higher fiber intake. I figured that I really need to try probiotics and maybe prebiotics. I've done this in the past (Jarrow EPS) but had to stop from all the side effects. I was not aware of the herx reaction back then.

    Prior to starting my probiotics, I took 1 month of natural anti-fungals (Candida support by NOW and Candex) as many of my current symptoms would indicate possibly fungus-infection. Also did the spit-test which was positive everytime (even this might not be very valid). I experienced severe "die-off" after 1,5 weeks which put me into a pretty bad flu with a lot of other side effects. I held through and when it started to lift I felt WAY better. Eventually got scared and had to stop the supplements because of severe pain in what I believe was the kidneys (might stressed to hard). Doing some tests for this now.

    Now I've taken probiotics for almost 3 weeks, this is the brand I'm using (http://www.iherb.com/Ortho-Molecular-Products-Ortho-Biotic-Gastrointestinal-Health-60-Capsules/20798), contains Saccharomyces Boulardii which is said to help with yeast overgrowth too.

    It went good the first 2 weeks but now I'm experiencing depressive episodes, I have nearly no energy, no social interest at all. Just feeling a bit "down" with increasingly negative thought patterns. There is also a lot of sounds coming from stomach/gut, discomfort, slight pain sometimes and my bowel movements are very slow/slight constipation. I believe this could be the good bacteria fighting the bad? I take Chlorella every day which seems to alliavte some of the constipation.

    I need guidance on what to do as I've backed off once before when I did the probiotics, I actually dont wanna do that. I read a lot that this might be herx-reaction and that I should push-through for the good bacteria to populate again. Could this be it?

    I can post more of my genetics if anyone wants to take a look for that btw, or anything else :)
  2. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,242
    Likes:
    599
    UK
    @kraken

    I am battling candida too, and have had no success with any probiotic l have taken, they all increase histamine for me and have other negative affects especially acidophilis and bifida ones and even Mutiflor which did me good 3 years ago. I don't like the one you are taking as it has magnesium stearate in which l avoid. I would say that continuing constipation is a sign, moreover, that it is not working.

    I am now on Prescript Assist and finally seeing good results in that constipation has resolved , more energy, clearer brain, and deeper sleep. I am also taking OxyLift and having vivid dreams which l had before on resistant starch which l stopped using since it was stimulating my immune system. I am very happy with PA and have just upped my dose to 3 a day but some say they have trouble with it. I am on low carb diet and have just started Pau d'arco tea as well as rifing and having some herxing.

    I am extremely sensitive and can take few things, having mercury, Lyme, Hashimotos and candida and had to stop methylation shops.
  3. IreneF

    IreneF Senior Member

    Messages:
    414
    Likes:
    376
  4. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,200
    Likes:
    1,393
    Left Coast
    I read something about the Saccharomyces Boulardii that you shouldn't take it if you have immunodeficiencies. I'm not taking it because of that.

    CAUTIONS

    The safety of probiotics has not been studied extensively in people with compromised immune systems. Use cautiously in patients prone to infections or those with compromised immune systems, critically ill patients, or in neonates born prematurely or those with immune deficiency, as the use of probiotics may increase the risk of infection in these populations. S. boulardii may interact with antibiotics, antifungals, and anti-diarrheal drugs. Consult your healthcare practitioner before taking this product if you are taking any of these medications, if you are being treated for any medical conditions, or if you are pregnant/lactating.
  5. Aileen

    Aileen Senior Member

    Messages:
    607
    Likes:
    485
    Canada
    Have you had testing to determine if there is candida or other gut infection? If there is, perhaps asking your dr about a course of the appropriate anti-microbial drug(s) might be a good first step. Kill the nasties, then repopulate.
  6. Aileen

    Aileen Senior Member

    Messages:
    607
    Likes:
    485
    Canada
    I've never heard anything about this FUT2 gene. I've done 23andMe. Which SNPs should I be looking at? Where did you find out it is tied to abnormal gut flora? Does it do anything else?
  7. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    2,830
    Likes:
    1,422
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    The best thing for the gut seems to be the 4R Gut Rebuilding Program which I have linked in my signature.

    Start with a stool test to see what your bad bugs are and what specific herbs will work against them. You might need to add other supports such as betaine hydrochloride, enzymes, etc., supps to rebuild the gut lining and make it a nice place for the good bacteria to grow, and then finally, probiotics.

    SHMT and ACAT also affect the gut, so if you have those, treating for them simultaneously can help get results where just going a gut program alone doesn't.

    FUT2 is one of the genes researched by MTHFRsupport.com, but I'm not sure what the treatment for that would be, if anything.
  8. shah78

    shah78 Senior Member

    Messages:
    135
    Likes:
    80
    st pete , florida
    I have found wonderful sucess from the RS + plus SBO program. HOWEVER, I found that there was a histamine enhancing effect caused by fermented pickles and sauerkraut, and maybe even some of the probiotics. google: dave asprey, probiotics and brain fog. My temporary, but strong depression and fatigue went away as soon as I stoppped the ferments.
  9. kraken

    kraken

    Messages:
    49
    Likes:
    2
    Wow a lot of replys, thank you all. First of, its actually a bit better today. Its been a tough week starting on wednesday but today I dont feel as bad. I've sort of already decided that I will try to push-through for atleast 1 week so we'll see how things progress.

    @brenda, glad you're doing better. The Probiotic which I linked is supposed to be without any bacteria that raises histamine levels (actually found the advice here on the forum). I'm also prone to high histamine but so far I dont think there's any difference.

    @Aileen, I havn't confirmed that with my doctor, however, I made a stool sample and they didn't find anything. I didn't know about Candida back then and didn't ask for it either so I'm not sure they've checked for that. Honestly I dont believe that, my local doctors unfortunately doesn't seem to be very knowledgeable. I will talk to him and see exactly what kind of things that I were tested for my sample, and ask for Candida test (hopefully he knows what that is). Regarding the FUT2 gene, there is some studies on google. Here's an article: http://metabolichealing.com/fut2-gene-mutations-your-gut-flora/

    @caledonia, thanks! will definitely look into that. As I've mentioned, I did a stool sample but have no idea what they searched for. It came out fine they said. I'm not really sure on what to ask for either, however will see what they actually tested. I have SHMT 2 rs34095989 hetereo. The others are blanked out white (MTHFRSupport), not sure what that means. Didn't find them?

    @shah78, RS indeed sounds very promising as a prebiotic, I've considered it a while back but never ordered. Whats your dosage and how do you dose it? What kind of effects do you get?
  10. MichaelCT

    MichaelCT

    Messages:
    1
    Likes:
    0
    Cape Town,South Africa.
    Very interesting thread lovely people.I have had CFS/ME for about 3 years which in my opinion was caused by the prolonged use of antibiotics for chronic sinusitis .I had a gut ecology test done about 2 years ago which revealed significant candida overgrowth as well as deficient levels of e.coli.I have tried using natural antifungals such as Lauricidan (Monolaurin) and Colloidal Silver ,initially they seemed to work well but as time went by I began experiencing really severe die-off symptoms ,so stopped using them all together .For the last 10 months I have been using probiotics as I find the die-off symptoms more manageable than the antifungals.I have been using Acidophilus Pearls by Enzymatic Therapy as well as Intensive Care Acidophilus Pearls by the same company,which contains more strains of good bacteria and triggers stronger die-off symptoms.
    These daily die-off symptoms are:
    .Restlessness/Hyperactiviy at certain times of the day but increased fatigue at other times
    .Strong emotions: anger/irritablility, despair, sadness, fear.
    .Strong social anxiety
    .Brain fog+inability to find words.
    If I skip a day of probiotics I feel much calmer emotionally (less anxiety etc.) but tend to feel more fatigued and experience more of a blocked nose and ears.Have been taking these probiotics for about 10 months and am still experiencing strong die off symptoms.Wonder if anyone else has experienced similar die off symptoms ?

    Much Love to all
  11. Quokka

    Quokka

    Messages:
    9
    Likes:
    21
    Hi @MichaelCT I have low e. coli too and have struggled to build up my levels of it. E.coli is one of those wonderful bacterial responsible for making tryptophan amongst other things. Tryptophan is needed to make the neurotransmitters seratonin and melatonin. Without tryptophan, depression and sleep troubles rule.

    I've been taking Mutaflor for a while now and can't get by without it. When I don't take it for a few days, I get depressed (to the point of suicidal thoughts at times), have trouble sleeping and gradually become very weak or fatigued with greater brain fog. Restarting the mutaflor reverses that progression.

    Funny thing is, eating even small amounts of onion and garlic induce symptoms exactly like those from not taking mutaflor. It seems e.coli don't like fructans.

    A similar thing happened when I started taking Ultra Florra LGG with lactobacteria rhamnosus. I had to increase my mutaflor from one tablet to two to keep happy and sleepy.

    I think that the lactobacteria and e.coli may be in competition in our gut and promoting lactobacteria may decrease e.coli and visa versa.

    E.coli, according to my poo testing company, love galactose and fucose (that is not a misspelling of fructose). I'm not sure what foods they're contained in but I'd love to find out and give them a try.

    I have had success with resistant starches 2 and 3, half a cold potato for lunch and 1/2 teaspoon of raw, unmodified potato starch. They seem to help with the depression and weakness, so may be helping e.coli loving bacteria in the gut.
  12. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,798
    Likes:
    2,563

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page