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Trial by Error: The Dutch Studies +

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by worldbackwards, Dec 2, 2016.

  1. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

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  2. slysaint

    slysaint Senior Member

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    I like this:
    "Maybe ten sessions of poker-playing or ten sessions of watching Seinfeld reruns while holding hands with the therapist and singing “The Girl from Ipanema” in falsetto would have produced the same results."

    Might give it a try.
     
  3. NL93

    NL93 Senior Member

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    I am embarrassed to be Dutch right now :depressed:
     
  4. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

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    Imagine what it's like being British.
     
    Izola, Joh, taniaaust1 and 26 others like this.
  5. Jan

    Jan Senior Member

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    I do love a good David Tuller story time. I imagine us all sitting around, like we used to in infant school, listening to someone like Joanna Lumley or Robin Williams (RIP) reading it to us. He never fails to catch the baddies in the stories, but I'm still waiting for the bit where he says 'and they all lived happily ever after' One can but dream.
     
  6. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

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    Thank you for the entertainment! Pigeons coming home to roost at last I think. Prof Holgate would be wise to distance himself from his close friend Esther before his scientific credibility is ripped to shreds.
     
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  7. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    Yes, the entire evidence base for CBT/GET is a pile of shit. The reality is that CBT/GET doesn't work and that the cognitive behavioral model of CFS is nonsense. If they worked and the model was correct, this constant distortion of reality present in every single study in some form or another wouldn't be necessary.
     
  8. eafw

    eafw Senior Member

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    He is a good writer, and that article is a real zinger.

    "That this so-called science manages to get through peer review is astonishing."

    It is indeed.
     
  9. trishrhymes

    trishrhymes Senior Member

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    I love the way he tells it. All those lovely expressions like 'preposterous', 'WTF', 'flat-earth'.

    Does my heart good.
     
  10. Grigor

    Grigor Senior Member

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    I hear you. Same here. I'm really really sorry guys. But very thankful David Tuller is covering this.
    I almost have to thank Esther Crawley for this.
     
  11. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    I was a bit unsure about some of that, and wonder if his (justified) frustration could mean he writes in a way that is less likely to convert people not already on-side.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2016
  12. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Rebel without a biscuit

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    I've noticed in life that there is selective bias in hearing among people. It all depends who's saying something not how they're saying it that causes the message to be heard or not.

    Just try this as a woman. Tell someone from a society where women's voices are not heard something you know to be true then see what response that gets compared to one of their buddies or your father or any man telling them the same thing.

    People who would not listen to people with ME may well listen to someone with a PhD in public health even if he is rather snarky--perhaps even more so since it is provocative.
     
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  13. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    That could well be true. I don't know.
     
  14. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

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    Whatever it's effect, it has been interesting to watch his generally measured, though occasionally barbed critique evolve into a Margaret Williams-esque fury over the course of the last year.

    One explanation is that he sick of having to make the same arguments over and over again about the same old bullshit that just keeps on coming regardless; a predictable reaction.

    Another is that he thinks the wider audience he's talking to is becoming more receptive, to the degree that he no longer needs to pull his punches. Maybe it's both.
     
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  15. BurnA

    BurnA Senior Member

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    He may have thought that after his original trial by error series, that more people would speak out and the Lancet and PACE trial authors would be at least held accountable.

    Id say he might be getting frustrated that despite everything he is saying nothing is happening to the fraudsters.

    It's probably more incredulous to him now because he has told the story to the general public yet still nothing has changed.

    Anyway, whatever is going through his mind, I'm liking it.
     
  16. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Yet another Tuller article posted to my Facebook page.

    I got a chuckle out of this:
     
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  17. Forbin

    Forbin Senior Member

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    Oh, in falsetto. Damn. Try, try again.
     
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  18. Barry53

    Barry53 Senior Member

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    For me "and they all choked on their own words" would be good.
     
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  19. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    http://www.theopennotebook.com/2012/01/18/david-tuller-cfs/
    This may have got him started on the road to investigating what was happening and my be a driving force for him today.
     
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  20. actup

    actup Senior Member

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    "I was a bit unsure about some of that, and wonder if his (justified) frustration could mean he writes in a way that is less likely to convert people not already on-side".

    @Esther12, I appreciate your concerns above (sorry don't know how to do 'quote' window). Quiet voices have not worked well for us. We desperately need loud, eloquent, well respected and well informed voices like David Tuller's. We are too sick and vulnerable to be as loud as we need to be. It takes a lot of energy we don't have.

    I think I'm way past any concerns with offending tptb.
    They( tptb in the UK and the US who lead the way) have a long term agenda which primarily concerns saving large amounts of money by throwing cbt/get at every difficult to diagnose neuro immune illness out there ( guessing me/cfs represents the biggest savings due to the numbers).

    In a recessionary economy they double down on this agenda. I see the BPSers as propagandists for the insurance cos and govt rather than real researchers. I'm much more concerned about offending people like David Tuller who consistently stands up for us rather than these pseudo researchers and others committed to this "soft" eugenics agenda.
     
    taniaaust1, Jan, TiredSam and 5 others like this.

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