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Trial By Error, Continued: Questions for Dr. White and his PACE Colleagues

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by worldbackwards, Jan 4, 2016.

  1. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

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    How I've missed these!

    http://www.virology.ws/2016/01/04/t...estions-for-dr-white-and-his-pace-colleagues/

    More from Big Dave. One of the things I really hate about White's responses to anyone is how he obfuscates over minor questions and avoids the big ones altogether, so this is a great topic.
     
  2. Gijs

    Gijs Senior Member

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    very, very good and legitimate questions.
     
  3. Marco

    Marco Grrrrrrr!

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    Don't you feel he's being a little too 'nitpicking'? ;)
     
    Scarecrow likes this.
  4. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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  5. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

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    I have just one question for the HMS PACE crew:

     
  6. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    It is really important that not only is their 'science' technically refuted, but also that their highly manipulative and deceitful propagandistic approach is fully exposed.

    This one really does go way past just some minor spat in a remote corner of science, and all the way to the core of power in this modern world.
     
  7. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    Including to the critical and urgent question of how much formal power and influence should psychiatry be granted, given the typically poor quality science upon which their claim to authority is based.
     
    Daisymay, meadowlark, MeSci and 8 others like this.
  8. Tom Kindlon

    Tom Kindlon Senior Member

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    Comment I posted underneath:
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
  9. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    I think that should be "psychiatry and psychology", especially in the UK. It feels like the two disciplines are mounting a backdoor coup in frontline healthcare here.

    It occurs to me that Danny Boyle left something out of his big NHS set piece in the opening ceremony of the London Olympics. There should have been a chorus line of psychologists administering CBT to dancing MUS patients.
     
    Art Vandelay, Daisymay, MeSci and 6 others like this.
  10. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

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    I'm seeing a tableau representing the history of faith in Britain by combining past and present - Ken Branagh as Jesus, resurrecting Lazarus by getting him to redefine his sickness beliefs, then blaming him for being such a miserable old lazybones in the first place.

    This could be the start of a whole new genre! I'm going to take a song and dance adaptation of the DSM V to Broadway and no-one can stop me!
     
  11. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    Yep.
     
    sarah darwins likes this.
  12. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    Very good. You could write a very long article focusing entirely on their avoidance and misrepresentation of questions. Needs more exposure in my opinion because it is easy to get away with only so long as you control the information that might be used to tackle it. Which is exactly what they are doing, they know the information if shared would trump their propaganda.
     
  13. Cheshire

    Cheshire Senior Member

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    Yeh, propaganda really IS the right word:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
     
  14. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

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    I think they read Herman and Chomsky's "Manufacturing of Consent" and decided it was an instruction manual.
     
  15. soti

    soti Senior Member

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    sarah darwins likes this.
  16. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

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    Very good. I have one question though about Tuller's question 18. He writes 'the CDC obviously requires “fatigue,” but not that it be the primary symptom, and patients can present with post-exertional malaise or cognitive problems as being their “primary” complaint.)' I thought fatigue with the CDC criteria had to be the primary complaint? Have I misunderstood? Thank you
     
    worldbackwards likes this.
  17. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    It's Oxford which has to be primarily about fatigue. Fukuda requires chronic fatigue + 4 symptoms from a list of 8.
     
  18. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

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    Thanks @Valentijn I know Oxford the primary complaint is fatigue but I understood, possibly wrongly, CDC must have fatigue as primary complaint and then four other symptoms out of a list of 8, I.e if you said you had post exertional malaise and cognitive function but no fatigue you wouldn't meet the CDC criteria? Thank you
     
  19. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    Not really. I think they're largely considering PEM to be a specific type of fatigue. I don't think "fatigue" is incorrect so much as it is non-specific to the point of being useless. It doesn't help select ME patients, but doesn't necessarily interfere either - unless it is required to be the most prominent symptom, a la Oxford.

    The much bigger problem is the omission of PEM as a mandatory symptom.
     
  20. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

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    Ok, thank you. I of course agree the omission of PEM as a mandatory symptom is a huge problem
     

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