Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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Tregs may also be low in subsets

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by sillysocks84, Oct 10, 2015.

  1. sillysocks84

    sillysocks84 Senior Member

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    http://selfhacked.com/2014/11/11/treg/

    Tregs may be low if your cfs/me/pots is an autoimmune subgroup. If you are developing mast cell issues it is another huge indicator.

    Last month an article came out that showed how activating and upping tregs in the mast cell could turn off the mast cell allergy in progress. That's huge news. They claimed it could be a cure for all allergies.

    Not everyone should try increasing tregs. If you have too many it can also have a negative effect, and some people with cfs me have found it makes them feel worse. There is a test to see if yours are high or low before you attempt anything. But.... for those of us that have allergies and autoimmune problems it's worth a shot.

    The above article has ways of increasing tregs. Be careful which ones you do as you may respond bad to some of the ways. I think two good ways are:

    1. Ampk: It also works on restoring blood glucose levels. (Many of us have insulin resistance ) ALSO NEW MITOCHONDRIA production! That's huge!

    2. The RIGHT probiotic can also increase TREGS.

    Has anyone tried AMPK? I haven't heard much about it....

    Oh here's the link to tregs possibly curing allergies:
    http://m.medicalxpress.com/news/2015-09-allergies.html
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2015
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  2. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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  3. sillysocks84

    sillysocks84 Senior Member

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    AMPK is a supplement that I need to research more. It got me interested because if you can make more tregs it can help keep mast cells at bay. That 2nd link at the end explains how tregs do that. You may want to show that article to your doctor! Sorry I can't tell you more about AMPK. Maybe someone else on here can? If you find out let me know. I plan to order some soon.
     
  4. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMP-activated_protein_kinase

    Taking AMPK is more likely to be placebo rather than a useful treatment. Its a complex and easily damaged protein that will have almost no effect unless it can make it, intact, to where its needed. You could not just swallow it, and even intravenous infusion may not be any good. Any regular oral supplement, even with a carrier strategy, is most likely a scam. Show me the research!

    Trying to influence AMPK by affecting associated chemistry might be effective, I just don't know if anyone has done it, its not something I have yet to investigate closely.

    Finding the cause of low AMPK activity is more likely to be effective in the long term because it may tell us what needs fixing.
     
  5. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    I was trying to find this test at Labcorp...is it just CD3+CD25? The only panel I can find is called a Tcell activation panel but not sure that is the same thing he referenced on selfhacked?

    Also trying to figure out why he says that the Swanson probiotic is the *only* one that increases Tregs. The linked article didn't seem to help unless I just missed it which is entirely possible.
     
  6. sillysocks84

    sillysocks84 Senior Member

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    Yes, thank you Alex, I hadn't thought of that. Makes sense!
     
  7. sillysocks84

    sillysocks84 Senior Member

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    I was planning to ask my doctor about getting the test, so I'm not help there. As with the probiotic I'm sure others would work that link was broken. I was wondering if the clostridium butyricum (CB) would work??
     
  8. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Here's a link to the article:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3276397/

    I don't know much about CB. Maybe ask in that thread too?
     
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  9. sillysocks84

    sillysocks84 Senior Member

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    @alex3619 what did you think about the article saying tregs could be possible cure for allergies? I (and others on here) have mast cell activation disorder and allergies.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2015
  10. sillysocks84

    sillysocks84 Senior Member

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    Interesting bits from the article @Ema

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3276397/
    "Tregs have been found to suppress various immune cells such as CD8+T cells, dendritic cells (DCs), monocytes/macrophages, B cells, natural killer cells and natural killer T cells"

    "In support of the positive influence of oral probiotics on expansion of Tregs, administration of L. casei to mice affected the frequency of CD4+FoxP3+ Tregs in the skin. Whereas this ameliorated skin inflammation, it did not change the extent of in vivo suppressive function of nTregs (29). Accordingly, in an experimental model of colitis, live probiotics as well as their immunomodulatory DNA resulted in generation of higher numbers of FoxP3+ Tregs (36). Moreover, it has also been shown that Tregs isolated after oral feeding with L. reuteri are more potent than Tregs from mice without previous probiotic exposure and could prevent airway inflammation caused by allergies"

    *Edited to say* I find it interesting tregs suppress b cells, that's similar to rituximab, is it not?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2015
  11. Research 1st

    Research 1st Severe ME, POTS & MCAS.

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    Has anyone ever tested the TREG's out of interest?

    If so, could you please share with us the name of the tests and the Lab?

    Thank you.
     
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  12. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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  13. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    Yes thank you @alex3619 and I don't actually understand this thread but if there is something in here that is effective for MCAS or a test that leads to treatment, I am very interested and hope someone can explain it to me!
     
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  14. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    L casei and L reuteri are commonly found in many brands of probiotics. I still wonder why he says it must be Swanson.

    Guess I should email him and ask!!
     
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  15. sillysocks84

    sillysocks84 Senior Member

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    So apparently clostridium butyricum (cb) DOES INCREASE TREGS AND AMPK
     
  16. sillysocks84

    sillysocks84 Senior Member

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  17. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    T-Cell Activation Profile, CD8 Subsets
    Test Number: 505750 CPT: 86356(x3); 86359; 86360
    Test Includes
    Percentage and absolute values CD3+, CD3+CD4+, CD3+CD8+, CD3+CD25+, CD8+CD38+, CD8+HLA-DR+, CD4:CD8 ratio; CBC with differential

    Specimen
    Whole blood

    Volume
    Fill tube(s) to capacity.

    Container
    Lavender-top (EDTA) tube and yellow-top (ACD-A) or (ACD-B) tube

    Collection
    Invert tube 8 to 10 times immediately after collection. To preserve cellular viability, collect specimen so it will arrive in the laboratory within 48 hours of collection. Indicate date and time of venipuncture on the tube(s) and on the test request form.

    Storage Instructions
    Maintain specimen at room temperature.

    Stability
    Temperature
    Period
    Room temperature 2 days
    Refrigerated Unstable
    Frozen Unstable
    Freeze/thaw cycles Unstable
    Causes for Rejection
    Hemolysis; specimen refrigerated or frozen; clotted specimen; contaminated specimen

    Reference Interval
    Reference intervals are established by the laboratory. See table.

    Adult Reference Intervals for Lymphocyte Immunophenotyping
    CD

    95% Confidence Interval

    Percentage

    Cells/mm3

    Minimum

    Maximum

    Minimum

    Maximum

    CD3+

    57.5

    86.2

    622

    2402

    CD3+CD4+

    30.8

    58.5

    359

    1519

    CD3+CD8+

    12.0

    35.5

    109

    897

    CD3+CD25+

    4.9

    25.9

    79

    535

    T4:T8 ratio

    0.92

    3.72

    CD8+CD38+

    0

    17.7

    0

    381

    CD8+HLA-DR+

    0

    4.9

    0

    117

    Use
    Expanded profile for AIDS monitoring and prognosis. An increase in activation markers is associated with poor prognosis.

    Limitations
    This test was developed, and its performance characteristics determined, by LabCorp. It has not been cleared or approved by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA). The FDA has determined that such clearance or approval is not necessary. Results of this test are for investigational purposes only. The result should not be used as a diagnostic procedure without confirmation of the diagnosis by another medically established diagnostic product or procedure.

    Methodology
    Flow cytometry

    References
    Landay AL, Jessop C, Lennette ET, Levy JA. Chronic fatigue syndrome: Clinical condition associated with immune activation. Lancet. 1991 Sep 21; 338(8769):707-712. PubMed 1679864

    Sadler D, Keren DF. Surface marker assays in immunodeficiency diseases. In: Keren DF, Hanson CA, Hurtubise PE, eds. Flow Cytometry and Clinical Diseases. Chicago, Ill: ASCP Press;1994:chap 9.
     
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  18. sillysocks84

    sillysocks84 Senior Member

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    Well yikes, I hope someone can say if that's the right one.
     
  19. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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  20. sillysocks84

    sillysocks84 Senior Member

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    @Ema caffeine would make my pots worse. That's just me personally.
     
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