Discussion in 'XMRV Testing, Treatment and Transmission' started by mojoey, Sep 23, 2010.
This will make it more difficult to prove that XMRV causes CFS. People feeling better while taking Raltegravir may only be experiencing relief from herpes viruses, rather than XMRV.
It actually makes Coffins argument stronger, that we should wait for better measures of XMRV titers.
You can make the same argument that AIDS patients using raltegravir were cured by treating herpes and/or HIV -- what makes this argument laughable is the CD4 count. We need to find the equivalent of the CD4 count for our illness: one marker that actually measures prognosis. Viral load or titres may indicate how much virus is left, but the CD4 is tossed around as proof that HIV treatment has helped restore AIDS patients' lives.
However, regarding controlling for the herpes, the trial designs for Raltegravir can easily pluck many ME/CFS patients in the trials that have already taken long-term valcyte or valtrex and did not improve. Lastly, this only applies to integrase inhibitors such as Ralt, not other HIV drugs. Doesn't seem too difficult to control for
Certainly the Raltegravir could be dealing with a herpesvirus infection. The question then becomes -- then why are so few ME/CFS patients getting Valtrex or Valcyte for herpesvirus infections? For how long have we been told we are not, as a rule, suffering from active herpesvirus infections?
It seems to me that ME/CFS docs ought to be thinking seriously about treating with antivirals while we're waiting for HGRV treatment.
Yeah, it does sound like we need quantitative measures of HGRV infection before we can do truly informative ARV trials.
Thanks, mojoey! That's good to hear.
We might already know the cfs equivilant to cd 4 count in hiv, probably natural killer cell dysfunction(not numbers) as this has been shown by many studies and by a study i am currently in, where the cfs group show low nk function compared to healthy control group. I also think treating herpes viruses as well as any other co-infection is going to be helpful as its going to lower he work load of the immune system so it can direct its attention to the other viruses/retroviruses not being directly treated.
Studies in humans consistently point towards a vital role of NK cells in the defence against chronic fatigue immunodeficiency syndrome (CFIDS), human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), herpesviruses, hepatitis B and C and other viral disorders. (8)
8. DM, Khemka P, Sahl L, et al. The role of natural killer cells in viral infections. Scand J Immunol 1997 Sep;46(3):217-24
Not sure NK cells are specific enough. There is Nk cell dysfunction in cancer and rheumatoid arthritis as well.
I know alot of people tend to have either elevated or low cd8 numbers. In my research i have found Cd8 lymphocytes are usually commonly elevated in ebv and cmv as well as other illness but ebv/cmv seem to come up alot, maybe these things come into play due to our dysfunction nk cells. Im ?cmv reactivated(negative to ebv although positive 8 yrs ago), this conculsion has come by my doc as i have had chronically elevated lymhpocytes, especially cd8 and these numbers came down with famvir(antivial) and my nk function also improved after av's. I have never been able to get my lymphocytes into normal limits but they have improved. My nk tests are only recent as in last 6 months so now im working on strengthening nk function and get it up to speed and see what the rest of my labs do as well as my symptoms, i can say i am improving.
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