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Treating patients suffering from ME/CFS with sodium dichloroacetate (pilot trial)

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by dreamydays, Mar 10, 2018.

  1. dreamydays

    dreamydays

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    http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(18)30105-1/fulltext#s0040
     
    adambeyoncelowe, Chris, sb4 and 11 others like this.
  2. perrier

    perrier Senior Member

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    I wonder what you think of this Hip.
    @Hip
     
    MEMum likes this.
  3. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    I think it's a great idea.

    The biggest problem with DCA seems to be tolerability around peripheral neuropathy.

    I was afraid to take my dose up that high, but now am feeling inclined to try again sometime!
     
    pattismith likes this.
  4. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    That's an amazing study, thanks for tagging me. So the study found sodium dichloroacetate (DCA) works well for 10 out of 22 ME/CFS patients (45%).

    On this forum in 2016 we were talking about using DCA, after the Fluge and Mella metabolomic study found evidence for impaired pyruvate dehydrogenase functioning in ME/CFS. Because DCA stimulates the pyruvate dehydrogenase complex, it seemed like DCA would be worth trying. Here it says:

    So at that time I decided to try some DCA. I took DCA 350 mg in two divided dose on the same day. But I found it made me sleepy for a few hours, rather than boosting energy. And the following day I felt depressed and frail, and this depression then lasted for nearly a month, and was hard to get rid of, and may have been triggered by the DCA (but I do get such periods of neurologically-caused depression anyway). So this put me off trying DCA further, and it's been on my shelf ever since. However, in the light of this new study, I think I may consider gingerly trying DCA again.



    DCA is used as a cancer treatment, and you can find it for sale by Googling dichloroacetate cancer buy.

    I believe the usual DCA doses for cancer are (for an 80 kg person) around 800 mg a day as preventative anti-cancer maintenance, and around 1,600 mg a day for cancer treatment — see this post.

    But this ME/CFS study used only 400 mg DCA daily, which is a lower and thus safer dose.



    There are some risks of developing neuropathy from higher doses of DCA, but taking benfotiamine, acetyl L-carnitine and alpha lipoic acid can help protect against this (see this post).

    In the study on DCA for ME/CFS, they used these supplements as a safeguard:


    Some people on this forum found that DCA is beneficial for ME/CFS:

    @XenForo reported that DCA gives him/her much more energy.

    @nanonug recently posted this protocol he takes containing DCA which reduces brain fog.

    @Mya Symons reported that DCA seemed to help his ME/CFS and fibromyalgia, but found DCA caused some stomach pain and nausea.



    Nausea, vomiting and indigestion are known side effects of DCA that can appear in some people, but these can be countered with a proton pump inhibitor drug (see this post). Alternatively, DCA might be administered transdermally to try to avoid these stomach issues (DCA has a molecular weight of around 129 daltons, which is well below the 500 dalton limit for transdermal absorption, so should absorb transdermally).

    DCA has unusual half-life characteristics: when you first take it, the half-life is less than 1 hour, but DCA possesses some unknown mechanism by which it inhibits its own metabolism and elimination, so with continued use, the half life goes up to several hours (ref: here).
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
  5. raghav

    raghav Senior Member

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    It seems to be too costly. Any cheap brand ?
     
  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I bought 25 grams of DCA for £32 on Amazon UK, but they do not seem to be selling DCA anymore.
     
    adambeyoncelowe likes this.
  7. dreamydays

    dreamydays

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    200 capsules for £100 on ebay UK Govitamins brand or around £1 a tablet from the lithuanian supplier used in the study.
     
    adambeyoncelowe and Kenshin like this.
  8. perrier

    perrier Senior Member

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    Dear Dreamydays
    who was the Lithuanian supplier?
     
  9. junkcrap50

    junkcrap50 Senior Member

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    CFS_for_19_years and nanonug like this.
  10. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    This is the brand that I use and they ship pretty much everywhere and from several warehouses (US/EU/Canada.) They are a Lithuanian company.

    PS. They are the Lithuanian company from which the product used in the study was obtained.
     
  11. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    They sell 25 grams of powder for £38, which is not too bad if you just want a small amount to try out.

    You can buy a digital scales with an accuracy of 1 mg for as little as $10.
     
    adambeyoncelowe likes this.
  12. raghav

    raghav Senior Member

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    Thanks @Hip Was the dosage during the trials 400 mg per day or multiple doses per day ?
     
  13. raghav

    raghav Senior Member

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    My gut could never tolerate ALCAR Any tips for making it tolerable ?
     
  14. raghav

    raghav Senior Member

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    why do they (dca lab) have 333mg and 500mg capsules and not 400mg ? Just thinking loud.
     
  15. raghav

    raghav Senior Member

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  16. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    adambeyoncelowe and sb4 like this.
  17. raghav

    raghav Senior Member

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  18. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

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    great trial,
    with a cheap and easy drug, and we just needed some guidance to use it...:thumbsup:
     
    perrier, MEMum and Mary like this.
  19. raghav

    raghav Senior Member

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    @nanonug for how many hours does the effect of the capsule last ? I have ordered from them and I will get it in another 10 days.
     
  20. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    The longer you use DCA, the longer it will last, as DCA inhibits the enzyme that metabolizes it. Well, up to a certain point of equilibrium. At this time, I'd say it lasts for me some 8 or 9 hours.
     
    adambeyoncelowe and paolo like this.

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