Dr. Bateman answers IOM questions from the community: Part 2
Clark Ellis brings us Part 2 of an interview with Dr. Lucinda Bateman, where she answered questions posed by the patient community …
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Treating Brain Fog with sam-E methylation

Discussion in 'Cognition' started by physicsstudent13, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

    Messages:
    572
    Likes:
    29
    US
    Sam-e seemed to be great for my brain fog and focus/concentration
    http://www.ebrainsupplements.com/best-of-nootropics-same
    I have terrible brain fog and exhaustion from sleep apnea and heard that TBI brain injury treatments work for that. I did have profound effects from sam-E so I'm taking methylfolate and vitamin B

    I'm curious how methylation seems to work to cure brain fog and give clarity/concentration. it seems to induce hormonal changes and give me cystic acne but then I am still foggy today?
    today I'm really foggy and can't focus even on 800mg of sam-E, will try 800mg more.
    do glutamine, alpha gpc, phos choline, theanine help brain fog?
     
  2. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

    Messages:
    889
    Likes:
    446
    I would imagine if methylation has helped your brain fog then it is likely caused by a build up of some toxins that is gumming up your brain function. I think if you have seen some good progress with sam-e then you're in the right track.

    A lot of people here use Fredd's methylation protocol if I am correct
     
    physicsstudent13 likes this.
  3. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

    Messages:
    572
    Likes:
    29
    US
    but I thought methylation is supposed to only create myelin and neurotransmitters, how does it do detoxification?
     
  4. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

    Messages:
    889
    Likes:
    446
    It does create neurotransmitters but one of the principal jobs of methylation is to create glutathione, which is the bodies best detoxifier. If you check out some of the methylation charts you will see it is formed at the very end, after homocysteine
     
  5. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    9,446
    Likes:
    10,711
    Albuquerque
    Have a look here.
     
    physicsstudent13 likes this.
  6. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

    Messages:
    572
    Likes:
    29
    US
    I'm taking sam-E and methyl b12 but am still really foggy and disabled. I started adding in 400mcg of methylfolate but still no effect.
    I'm considering injections of citicoline or glutathione, but I've taken NAC for over a year and I still have terrible brain fog and exhaustion
     
  7. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

    Messages:
    572
    Likes:
    29
    US
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2015
  8. xena

    xena

    Messages:
    34
    Likes:
    29
    i don't know about the sprays but i have been taking high doses (15 mg mthf/day + 4 mg methyl b12 injected) and it's working for me. don't know about potassium; i don't take it, i feel good without it.
     
  9. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

    Messages:
    546
    Likes:
    514
    Vancouver, Canada
    @physicsstudent13 I definitely wouldn't take a high dose of methylfolate right off the bat. That's a recipe for high anxiety, insomnia, etc. Start with a very small amount and see how you tolerate it, then build up slowly.
     
    xena likes this.
  10. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

    Messages:
    583
    Likes:
    302
    Methylation is great, but if you aren't sleeping I think you are always going to be foggy unless you take things that make you worse in the long run. Can you do anything about the apnea?
     
  11. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

    Messages:
    889
    Likes:
    446
    How and when do u take the methyl folate if I may ask? @Freddd talks a lot about pushing through higher doses but never explains a good way to take them. Do u just swallow pills at even intervals throughout the day? Sublingual? I'm curious about that.
     
  12. xena

    xena

    Messages:
    34
    Likes:
    29
    good question
    i take a 5 mg pill 3x a day, around 9 am, 3 pm, and 11 pm. at first i did this bc i read mthf has a 3 hour half life or something so i figured it would be more effective
    i have trouble sleeping and feel tired when i miss a dose and feel overwhelmed when i take 2 at once so i think this schedule is working for me
    I swallow them
     
  13. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

    Messages:
    889
    Likes:
    446
    Do you take your methyl supps in any sort of accordance with food?
     
  14. xena

    xena

    Messages:
    34
    Likes:
    29
    not in accordance with food but i try to take them at least .5 hrs after thyroid meds because they compete for absorption
     
  15. aturtles

    aturtles Senior Member

    Messages:
    119
    Likes:
    99
    Seattle, WA
    Freddd suggests taking L-MTHF (l-methylfolate) multiple times a day because of the short time it stays in your system. My experience mirrors this, that at 4 hours without L-MTHF I start to notice its lack. Freddd also takes L-MTHF on an empty stomach (along with other supplements in the protocol such as LCF, etc.; look at the various documents floating around for specifics), but I have not found that to matter so much. I think more important is that one take it often throughout the day.

    When I began the protocol, I took my L-MTHF 4x per day, breaking my day's total dose into 4 parts, which ended up being every four hours -- 8am/noon/4pm/8pm. I was very strict about the timing. I'm less rigorous about it now, but I still get it into me every 4 hours except when I'm sleeping (though if I wake up midnight, I'll sometimes take some, depending.)

    L-MTHF does NOT need to be sublingual. While some people feel that adds to the effectiveness of absorption, Freddd says that studies show L-MTHF absorbs well in the stomach without any issue. My experience matches this, that L-MTHF does just fine in the stomach, so no need to sublingual it.

    MeCbl (Methylcobalamin/B12) is another matter entirely. Those tabs do far better sublingually. That is an entirely different matter.
     
  16. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

    Messages:
    889
    Likes:
    446
    Thank you for that post. I've read as many of Freddds documents as I can and they are so contradictory and convoluted I can't seem to piece any protocol together. A few questions, if I may:

    Do you not have to take mb12 at the same time as methyl folate to avoid methyl trapping? I was under the impression that you needed a higher amount of mb12 so I assumed you needed to take them at the same time.

    Since you don't take mb12 at the same time, is that taken in accordance with food? Also wondering about the timing of LCF

    Thanks for any help with this
     
  17. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

    Messages:
    889
    Likes:
    446
    Btw @physicsstudent13 I'm not trying to hijack your thread, I hope you are seeing improvements
     
  18. aturtles

    aturtles Senior Member

    Messages:
    119
    Likes:
    99
    Seattle, WA
    Just to be clear, I don't speak for Freddd. I've chatted with him at length and read a good number of his posts, but even so, anything I say here about him or his protocol is only my impression and interpretation.

    As I see it, Freddd never set out to provide a complete system that everyone could use to solve all their problems. He set out to discover what worked, to perhaps develop some theories that would serve him and others in healing. One of the many things that makes me respect Freddd's approach is his willingness to change his strategy when different information comes along. He is willing to say "I don't know", something I rarely hear from other methylation experts. I have seen him change his approach and theories when new information comes along. For him -- and for me -- results are what matter, not proving out a specific theory or approach or set of supplementations.

    The Freddd posts you're seeing that seem contradictory may be more a matter of his changing his understanding -- of the evolution of his own research and testing and what he learns from others. His posts here span many years. So I recommend you check the dates and look for what's recent. I know that's tricky, and I'm completely sympathetic to that challenge, expecially here in the forums where things are all over the place, but there it is. (For example, when I joined not quite a year ago, I relied on an out-of-date post that recommended a specific B-complex which I then started taking daily. It had 100mg B1/Thiamin and caused me a number of problems for some time until I figured out that was way too much (10x). I now limit my daily B1/Thiamin consumption to no more than 10mg, and that's been tremendously helpful. Amount matters. Sometimes a lot.)

    Re: methyltrapping: I am not going to attempt to explain methyltrapping theory or how you can prevent it -- there are lots of posts kicking around about that. I can tell you what I do now, and what works for me. My own protocol has evolved, too, based on my research and experimentation. (Which is, of course, N=1. I'm learning all the time -- my most recent significant improvement was only a month ago. We're all learning here.)

    I take multiple rounds of L-MTHF throughout the day, followed by MeCbl. The amount depends on what seems to be working. (With MeCbl it's not just about amount; it also depends on brand and method of absorption/digestion/injection/whatever means you use to get it into your system; see the many long discussions on how hard it is to get MeCbl into the system and keep it a sufficient and consistent level. Getting MeCbl into the system is a really hard problem that many of us are trying to solve. At the moment, I use pills and nasal spray. Previously I was using vaping and injections. Many of us are experimenting with MeCbl, but most people still rely on tabs. Some day we will have a better mechanism. I hope.. MeCbl is tricky stuff to work with.)

    Re: MeCbl and L-MTHF "at the same time". I sometimes do take them together and I sometimes don't. I take a lot of both, which may cover my lack of precision, or it may not matter. My goal is to keep the MeCbl at a high, steady state.

    Re: MeCbl with or without Food: I take MeCbl both ways, though it's easier to have the tabs slowly dissolve in the gum if I'm not also eating. :)

    Re: LCF with or without food: I take my LCF in the morning on an empty stomach, and sometimes also in the afternoon, between meals, because Freddd once told me that works better without food. My independant research on the matter is inconclusive.

    I'll tell you what I think DOES matter a great deal: taking sufficient potassium. Bodies need this stuff, and if your methylation work is effective, you'll need more of it -- quite possibly a LOT more. And throughout the day. The body goes through it fast. I take between 500mg and 1gram each round, ideally (but not always) after the L-MTHF and the MeCbl, and some before bed.

    I consume potassium entirely to address deficit symptoms, not to a specific amount. Those symptoms for me are: brainfog, a sudden tired, and a heavy heartbeat -- all at once. These three together is my signal to take more. If there's anything to be worried about not doing enough of, it's potassium. (Fear of potassium is more of a danger than taking too much potassium; if your kidneys are healthy it is nearly impossible to overdose on it. ) My sources are Now Foods brand Potassium Gluconate (powder, 1lb) and Potassium Citrate (tabs.)

    Hope this helps.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page