Severe ME Day of Understanding and Remembrance: Aug. 8, 2017
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Trauma and chronic fatigue

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by patolos, Sep 30, 2016.

  1. patolos

    patolos

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  2. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Gave it a try, made it up to approximately 30':00"

    A true psychobabble manifesto! But I want my 30 mins back, thank you. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2016
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  3. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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  4. patolos

    patolos

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    I think it isn't psychobabble. I think my circulation issue is caused by diet and my chronic fatigue was caused by traumatic feelings being too much for me weighing me down mentally.

    I think PeterPositive is being delusional when saying that is psychobabble.

    As for your 30 mins that's just rude considering it is a slightly worthwhile piece of video.
     
  5. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Delusional defines a belief thet is maintained despite being contradicted by reality. So where is the evidence, please?

    Where are all the documented cases of CFS (and MS, ALS, cancer and all other horrible conditions he mentions) solved via psychotherapy?

    Looking forward to reading all the details on pubmed.

    Thanks
     
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  6. Hell...Hath...No...Fury..

    Hell...Hath...No...Fury.. Senior Member

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    I nearly didn't watch this reading the comments but i'm bedridden and got nothing else to pass the time so thought what the hell.

    I found him very difficult to listen to, speaking too fast for me, and i also nearly quit it after half an hour but persevered to the end and I really enjoyed it! Thanks @patolos

    Thankfully he only said the words 'chronic fatigue' and only briefly mentioned that, which enabled me to not go on the defensive like i normally might with this kind of stuff. (Unless i dozed off and missed a few minutes) I kept bracing myself for the usual ME/CFS bashing but it didn't really happen. It was barely mentioned in relation to other illness examples.

    But almost the whole video resonated with me and struck a chord. Not saying i believe it one way or another but definitely gave something to think about with regard to my POTS symptoms, Migraine, ME and past cancer.

    Thanks for sharing :thumbsup:
     
  7. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Well, I don't exclude that trauma can be a contributing factor to certain illnesses. The problem here is making the kind of gross generalizations that Maté makes, such as that all CFS cases are due to trauma, that MS is caused by trauma etc...

    Anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty (and experience with these conditions) knows that these multi factorial illnesses are in fact ... multi factorial! You can't just go around claiming there's "one true cause" that is valid for every one and you've got it all figured out. Anyone's BS-meter should already be at their melting temperature at that point. :)

    I don't discard the idea that is proposed, there is some merit and evidence and it should probably be better investigated to see if it holds up. At the moment this is mostly speculation with some basis on rats studies... far from anything of substance.

    Also, I would like to hear what are the practical solutions for dealing with trauma which allegedly should solve those related conditions. What is the success rate for these interventions? Last time I checked on psychotherapy for CFS/ME/SEID there was none.

    There would be also pretty unsormountable ethical issues involved in this sort of studies as I don't see how anyone could propose a cancer or MS patient to avoid any treatment besides psychotherapy.

    So, for the time being, I find it pretty disingenous to make such unwarranted claims on all sorts of chronic and degenerative illnesses in the face of zero evidence. Not to mention that psychotherapy is a darn expensive course of treatment, with a duration of months if not years...

    Anyway, I wouldn't want to throw the baby (trauma as contributing factor) with the bathwater (Matè's video), but definetely this bathwater isn't worth keeping.

    My 2c

    p.s. = sorry If I may have sounded rude in my first comment. Was not my intention, though sarcasm can be perceived differently by different people.
     
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  8. Hell...Hath...No...Fury..

    Hell...Hath...No...Fury.. Senior Member

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    I totally agree with what you're saying. I dont think he referred to CFS at all though. Just chronic fatigue.

    I really enjoyed it. Whether its BS or not. I don't think you sounded rude at all.
     
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  9. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Not sure since he's basically claiming that any illness has to do with childhood trauma.
    As regards CFS I think he was talking about this:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19124690

    So ... thanks mama and papa, you didn't get me the big japanese robot I wanted so much for xmas when I was 7, and now look what you've done :)

    Sarcasm aside, we live in the richest countries of the planet, I don't think childhood trauma is more prevalent in Europe or USA than, say, rural India, south africa or the middle east where war and poverty provide traumas almost on a daily basis.

    Are we really sure it is this simplistic? :rolleyes:
     
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  10. Hell...Hath...No...Fury..

    Hell...Hath...No...Fury.. Senior Member

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    I think its a contributing factor among many others. He's clinging to his own belief system to the exclusion of others, like many other doctors do.
    I still personally found the video interesting and took something away from it.
     
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  11. Hell...Hath...No...Fury..

    Hell...Hath...No...Fury.. Senior Member

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    I'm watching his other vids on youtube now. I enjoyed this one 'When the body says no'
    He was describing the personalities of people with ALS, he could have been describing me o_O

     

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