1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Dr. Kerr, I presume?
Clark Ellis brings us a rare interview with British researcher Dr. Jonathan Kerr who is now living in Colombia.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

transmission of lyme disease by horse fly???

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by clive powney, Jul 14, 2012.

  1. clive powney

    clive powney Senior Member

    Messages:
    172
    Likes:
    111
    coventry
    I have had ME/CFS for around 10 years now and the only infection that I have ever tested positive for is chronic lyme disease b afzelii and garinii . This was confirmed in tests performed both in the US and also Germany. My wife was also diagnosed with fibromyalgia about 2 years ago. Neither of us were EVER bitten by a tick , But we were both bitten by a horsefly a short while before our symptoms started (my wife was bitten 6 months before me and her symptoms started around 6 months before mine). What I wanted to ask is , are there others out there that have not thought of this potential of transmission and are dismissing Lyme Disease due to having never been bitten by a tick?
    There are numerous threads at the moment regarding the association of ME and biofilm bacteria and I was interested in others thoughts on this ?
    Reference : http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199006143222415
    transmitting Lyme disease (New England Journal of Medicine 322:1752
     
  2. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    2,983
    Likes:
    1,599
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    Very interesting. I've also been bitten by horseflies, but not a tick. I've also dismissed Lyme based on that and also lack of symptoms. But my ME/CFS didn't start until 10 years later either.

    However, I did have a really weird thing happen around the time I would have gotten bitten. I had an intense 24 hour flu, which started with having to urinate a lot, then feeling super tired and bad. Then I slept for like 15 hours straight. Then the next day I was recovered.
     
    merylg and CJB like this.
  3. CJB

    CJB Senior Member

    Messages:
    743
    Likes:
    387
    Oregon
    Interesting. I can't remember where, but I read recently that Lyme has several vectors including mosquitoes and spiders, so why not horseflies?

    caledonia - same weird thing happened to me about 1-2 years before ME/CFS hit. I woke up one morning with a "bite" on my wrist. I do remember there was a round swollen area about 2" across and I felt sick and feverish. My husband was out of town and I called and was able to get into the doctor. I don't remember if he gave me abx or what, but I went home and slept and the next day there was no sign anything had happened and I felt fine.

    I have been bitten by ticks, but not since I was under 10 years old and never got sick as a result that I know.
     
    merylg likes this.
  4. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,212
    Likes:
    1,362
    Ashland, Oregon
    I have no doubt that Lyme bacteria can be transmitted by horseflies. It seems the more I read, the more it seems likely that Lyme and as many as 300 Lyme co-infections can be transmitted by a wide variety of vectors. This makes me believe that most people are exposed to these potentially debilitating infections at some time or another. If this is true, then the question becomes why some people get sick and others don't. The answer that makes the most sense to me is the relative health of each individual's immune system more than anything else.

    I remember reading a comment by an author about 30 years ago, saying how he felt the world was on the verge of an "immune system crisis", or something to that effect. I can't remember the reasons he stated at the time, but some that I feel would be relevant include environmental toxicity, questionable safety of vaccinations, poor soil and poor nutrition, antibiotics proliferating in the animal products we eat, ubiquitous EMFs and radiation, and much more. This immune system theory might also explain why so many people who develop ME/CFS seem to have their illness "triggered" by a wide variety of pathogens.
     
  5. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

    Messages:
    1,480
    Likes:
    405
    Upstate SC, USA
    I wouldn't doubt cause them little b^#^#%^%ds hurt like the dickens when they lock down on you and there is usually a significant amount of blood when they bite. Since the do tend to really like horses as well and horses can catch the West Nile virus may pose another possibilty.
     
    merylg likes this.
  6. justy

    justy Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,685
    Likes:
    2,908
    U.K
    Very, very interesting. I have been trying to find out if this is possible for some time. I have not tested for Lyme and never been bitteb by a tick, BUT i was bitten by a horsefly on my hand a few months before my severe relapse. The bite came up very painful and sore with a hard lump which lasted for at least 6 months. Eventually it went down, but continued to flare up large and red and sore for 3 years!

    I know we have a lot of ticks in our are as my dogs always coming home with them from the fields which are full of sheep, but i dont know if it is a lyme area.

    I may just print out the abstract and ask my NHS GP to do a test.

    Justy.
     
    merylg likes this.
  7. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,212
    Likes:
    1,362
    Ashland, Oregon
    Hi Justy,

    Interesting experience. I had an experience where I got about 15-20 chigger bites. It was long after I had developed ME/CFS, but it did make me more sick and nauseous for several weeks afterwards. I think a lot of this anecdotal evidence suggests we are just in the infancy of understanding infectious diseases.
     
    merylg and justy like this.
  8. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    2,983
    Likes:
    1,599
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    One question has come to mind - if horse flies can transmit Lyme, do horses get Lyme? Seems like they would be getting bit a lot more than humans.
     
    merylg likes this.
  9. justy

    justy Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,685
    Likes:
    2,908
    U.K
    My dog is constantly getting infested with ticks, even though we use a deterrant spray (its for fleas as well) We live in the country and the other day we removed 40 ticks from him!

    Going back to horse flys - i know where we live there are a lot of sheep - which ticks like to bite. I suppose the horseflies could be picking up the lyme from infected animlas like sheep (we dont have deer here) and then biting a human.
    This summer the horseflies have been terrible in my garden and not a horse in sight.
     
    merylg likes this.
  10. anciendaze

    anciendaze Senior Member

    Messages:
    891
    Likes:
    1,009
    Most tick bites from nymphs go unnoticed. It is hard to rule them out.

    However, there is no question that horseflies transfer enough fresh blood to carry infections. This is a major route for transmission of equine infectious anemia. If you import a horse into the U.S. you will have to pay for quarantine in a special facility where such things are excluded while the health of the horse is checked, because horseflies can transfer enough blood to infect...well, a horse.
     
    merylg and justy like this.
  11. YesAFkyGaveMeLy e

    YesAFkyGaveMeLy e

    Messages:
    1
    Likes:
    2
    I got lyme from a fly in Central Park ! Doctors wouldn't test me, thought I was crazy! Five doctors later and 50 requests later .. They all called each other before calling me to tell me my lyme positive results. Bug was smarter than the whole lot of them!
     
    merylg and Wayne like this.
  12. anciendaze

    anciendaze Senior Member

    Messages:
    891
    Likes:
    1,009
    In answer to a question above: yes, borreliosis can affect cattle and horses, dogs, mice and even birds. (Lizards?) With studies from both Europe and Canada showing these spirochetes in migratory birds, I have to wonder about the geographic restrictions prominent in official literature. Do the birds know the rules?

    Most people are probably exposed to borrelia spp., but only those with a specific immunological vulnerability develop the full disease. Reliance on serological tests makes it difficult to tell if the pathogen has been cleared by treatment, since patients go on producing antibodies. This optimistically assumes infection was detected in the first place by a test designed to find a single strain (B31) out of more than 100. It is extremely difficult to report infection by a species for which you lack a test, so this produces circular reasoning in reported incidence. Different species are found in Mexico, Europe, Japan and East Asia, but I suppose Americans never visit these regions.

    Continued complacency about this situation does not cast the Department of HHS in a positive light.
     
    Wayne, justy, merylg and 2 others like this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page