Transdermal B12 oils

[garyfritz]

WOW! Amazing effects:: mood boost, sexual interest, energy and muscle stamina. I felt almost like a new man.

I wanna get some of YOUR supplements!!

That's very interesting. We have a lot of SNPs in common but your response to B12 is totally different to mine. I don't get a mood lift or any of your other fun results -- I just get relief from nasty symptoms. Which is good in itself, but I'd love to have the energy, stamina, mood, and libido boost you're seeing!

What is a "ballpark equivalent" (rough guess) of the sublingual equivalent dosages of MeB12 and AdB12 to achieve a similar level of effect of 1 spray Me/Abl oil?

There is a wide range of guesses for how much is absorbed from sublinguals, usually 1% - 10%. It depends on the brand, the person, how you take the sublingual (sucking on it, under tongue, between lip and gum, etc). The longer it takes to dissolve, so the longer it's in contact with your oral mucosa, the more you can absorb. When I was still using sublinguals I started breaking my CL 5mg's in half so I had them on my gum 2x longer.

If you assume you got 5% absorption from your 5mg CL, that would be about 0.25mg effective usable dose of mB12.

The ado/me oil has about 0.625 mg mB12 per squirt, with a claimed 80% absorption, so that's a 0.5mg usable dose. And about 1.5mg usable adenosyl.

So when you get your oil, you may want to experiment with very small doses. The container dispenses 0.25ml doses and there's not really a good way to dispense a partial dose. You could however unscrew the top and measure out whatever dose you desired, maybe using a dropper or syringe?

For comparison, I was taking 4/day of CL 5mg's, and often it would take another 1 or 2 to get me through the night. I also tried adding upwards of 8mg adB12 as dibencozide with no apparent effect. So I was taking 20-30mg mB12 and not controlling my symptoms well. Meanwhile 3 (and occasionally 4) squirts of oil per day keep my symptoms almost totally at bay. So 1.5-2.0mg mB12 + 4.5-6.0mg adB12 absorbed from the oil is working MUCH better than 20-30mB12 and 8mg adB12 with sublinguals.

 

[Sherpa]

@garyfritz thanks for the excellent, detailed answer! I'm guessing we may have a similar kind of genetic issues but your B12 deficiency sounds more severe. The day-to-day symptoms I associate with B12 deficiency is more depression , fatigue , low sexual vigor, insomnia. When I do too much exercise or stress (emotional abuse, etc) I get more severe symptoms like neuropathy and muscle aches.

The roughly 3ad:1me ratio is working brilliantly for me in this morning's sublingual test. 1.5mg AdB12 + .5mg MeB12

I sure was starving for adenosylcobalmin, it feels like the sun coming out on a cloudy winter day.

I understand that B12 is light sensitive. I could try drops onto the skin from a painted, light-sealed syringe. Or maybe when I get the spray I could just spray a little on 1 finger and rub it into the skin (even if that is wasteful, it'd be worth it if it lead to being able to tolerate a once-a-day spray)... then go up to 2 fingers, then 3. Is the dispersion radius of the spray wide enough to allow this experiment?

 

[garyfritz]

Ah, so you get relief from symptoms too, but your symptoms are different (and nastier) to mine.

The oil doesn't come in a spray. The bottle dispenses 0.25ml squirts. I'd recommend opening the bottle and getting what you need with a dropper or syringe. If not, you could squirt it into your palm, rub in what you want, then wash the rest off your palm.

The 1.5 ad + 0.5 methyl is exactly what I'm getting from 3 squirts of oil, but that's my actual absorbed/usable dose. Your sublingual absorption is probably much lower.

 

[ahmo]

I've been experimenting with a homemade version of transdermal B12. I'd purchased some drops to experiment with inhalation. For 3 or 4 days I've added this to some of my home-made body creme and rubbed it on. It seems to be giving me as good a response as the B12oils pump, although there's more of it to rub in. I'm using the liquid linked below, a dropperful, mixing it in my hand with a *finger-full* of my cream. A bit sloppy, then it rubs into my skin. I have a variety of oils in my cream, don't know that any of them makes it particularly penetrating: shea & cocoa butters, almond oil, flax and olive oils, some other things...

The drops are $13 for 30 droppers-full. That would seem to make this about 1/2 price of the B12 oils. It must be that the transdermal method is so much more effective than oral that makes this work. I'd been taking 20mg Country Life sublingual before switching to the B12oils. These drops are listed as 5mg per dropperful.

http://www.iherb.com/California-Xtr...&w=California xtracts B12&rc=396&sr=null&ic=2

 

[garyfritz]

That's 30*5 = 150 mg for $13, $0.087 per mg. That's REALLY cheap. The b12oils products are $40 (assuming buying 3 at a time) for roughly 60 doses. The pure-methyl oil has 0.75mg per dose, so 60*0.75 = 45 mg for $40, $0.889 per dose. So not counting the creme, those drops are 1/10 the cost of the B12oils product.

And you get to taste like berries too!

 

[picante]

So not counting the creme, those drops are 1/10 the cost of the B12oils product.

I suspect it's all going to depend on absorption rates. Not all methylB12s are equal, since some of them degrade partially before we buy them. So this would be another experiment to run with different brands.

Here are two besides @ahmo's that look pretty good:
https://www.pureformulas.com/methylcobalamin-4-oz-by-complementary-prescriptions.html#reviews
http://www.bio-alternatives.net/b12.htm

The second one has two ingredients: methylcobalamin and water. So no sticky glycerin or flavorings.

If I remember right, the MeB12 degrades to HydroxyB12 when exposed to light. It's possible that the MeB12 in the Australian oils is relatively intact compared to these (the container lets no light in). It's also possible that there is something in them to improve absorption.

 

[garyfritz]

Absolutely right, @picante. The b12oils folks did a lot of experimentation to find good oils and emulsifiers to enhance absorption, and they've done animal tests to get the 80% figure.

These drops may be cheaper on a per-mg basis, but without experimentation we have no idea how effective they are.

 

[picante]

If @ahmo says it's effective, I'm sure it is, and I'd be curious to try it, since I'm not using my Australian oils right now due to the vitamin D in them. I'm just thinking that the amount of MeB12 required might be quite a bit more. (But possibly less than what I take sublingually.)

 

[ahmo]

@garyfritz Thanks for doing the maths. Wow. And tasting like berries.

 

[Gondwanaland]

http://www.iherb.com/California-Xtr...&w=California xtracts B12&rc=396&sr=null&ic=2

I have this one at home, unfortunately it hasn't been doing wonders for me... But I would like to ask the following:
DH is having severe joint pain, esp. right elbow, after tart cherry and/or Yucca - or digestive enzymes? (mea culpa ). Should I try your trick with lotion and rub it on his elbow?

 

[garyfritz]

If @ahmo says it's effective, I'm sure it is,

Oh I'm sure it's effective. We just don't have any idea how effective. @Gondwanaland didn't have great results with it.

But heck, if the b12oils are 5x more effective, those drops will still cost half as much. Might be a great answer if you want to reduce costs.

@Gondwanaland, I don't understand your question. Are you thinking the B12 drops would help his joint pain? Which was caused by tart cherry or Yucca ??

 

[Gondwanaland]

his joint pain

It is an old neuropathy triggered back by something I tried with him (the newest lab rat in the house ).
I mixed 1/4 of a B12 dropper to body lotion and massaged his inflammed elbow and ta-da Pain and inflammation are quickly subsiding

 

[garyfritz]

Huh. Not really sure what caused the pain, and I'm not sure why the B12 helped, but I'm glad it worked!

 

[ahmo]

Ha @Gondwanaland I just returned to my computer to write that I've done just that this AM.I strained my more vulnerable arm yesterday, attempting ukulele. I used my favorite anti-inflammatory, celery extract, which helped a lot. Still, strain remained this AM. I rubbed some of this B12 mixture into my arm, and it seems to have really helped.

Try mixing a squirt of it into some sort of moisturizing cream or massage lotion and rubbing it in. Good Luck!

 

[ahmo]

Yay! I believe mine is also neuropathy, my weakest place since ME.

This is Brilliant!!!

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Gondwanaland didn't have great results with it.

I'm suspect My dr is keeping me with low T3 so nothing is working as it should :thumbdown:

I'm not sure why the B12 helped

What dou you mean? B12 is all about countering inflammation

Try mixing a squirt of it into some sort of moisturizing cream or massage lotion and rubbing it in. Good Luck!

Another life-saving lesson I learn from you, Ahmo

 

[picante]

I'm suspect My dr is keeping me with low T3 so nothing is working as it should :thumbdown:

Is your doctor figuring your dose from FT3 labs? That's such a trap.

 

[ahmo]

@Gondwanaland This is so !! Gimme 5...

 

[Gondwanaland]

Is your doctor figuring your dose from FT3 labs? That's such a trap.

This is so !! Gimme 5...

Yup @ahmo that was a winner
The good news is that I just got an email from my dr upping my T3 dosage

 

[Gondwanaland]

In addition to the anti-inflammatory effect, in the following day DH also got better energy and disposition, extended pain-free effect, and more important, r e d u c e d h i s t a m i n e (no overheating/sweating).

Important to note that I also gave him a capsule of S. boulardii that same evening, which was probably synergistic with the MB12 rub.

Now to figure out how to get liquid AdB12 other than from Australia (it has a 3-month delivery time to my country).