Transdermal B12 oils

[picante]

@Gyre, @garyfritz, are you taking L-carnitine? What kind, how much?

I've been switching between the liquid L-carnitine (250-500 mg/day) and the LCF (Doctor's Best, one 855-mg cap).

 

[Gyre]

@Gyre, @garyfritz, are you taking L-carnitine? What kind, how much?

L-carnitine does nothing for me as far as I can tell. I take the same LCF you do, but double the dose, one AM, one PM.

 

[Little Bluestem]

I wonder if taking vit. D in the evening is causing the insomnia.

I have read that it does.

 

[Little Bluestem]

Has anyone used Garden of Life's Kind Organics B-12 transdermally? It was recommended by a 'big city' pharmacy. I'm afraid it may be expensive. I didn't ask the price.

 

[picante]

Has anyone used Garden of Life's Kind Organics B-12 transdermally?

No. It's a B-12 spray with the usual glycerin & raspberry flavor to make it taste good, plus apple juice. I wouldn't think you'd want to apply it to your skin. Icky sticky, . 500 mcg MeB12 per squirt, 140 servings per bottle. It's $11.87 on Amazon right now.

Assuming it hasn't been degraded by light, it would be a good deal, though. The methylcobalamin is from Saccharomyces cerevisiae (yeast). Let us know if you try it.

 

[Gyre]

L-carnitine does nothing for me as far as I can tell. I take the same LCF you do, but double the dose, one AM, one PM.

Sorry, I take Doctor's Best ALCAR, not LCF.

 

[Little Bluestem]

It's a B-12 spray with the usual glycerin & raspberry flavor to make it taste good, plus apple juice. I wouldn't think you'd want to apply it to your skin. Icky sticky, .

Maybe I will try spraying it up my nose. It contains citrus extract, grapefruit extract, and lemon juice, but they are all near the end of the ingredients list, so I hope it wouldn't sting too much. The stickiness might still be a problem, though. I want to get away from sublingual (while I still have my teeth), but do not want to put it in my lungs.

 

[ahmo]

@Little Bluestem is there a reason you don't want to use the B12 oil described in this thread? I also was looking at other options, including inhalation, until I felt my B12 levels were stable enough and then went with this oil. I'm still on my first bottle, which is said to contain about 50 pumps. I love it. So simple. And works out at same price as the sublinguals I was using. But I'm also on a fairly high dose, was using 20mg/day sublingual, maybe you're using less...In which case I don't know how it would go.

 

[Little Bluestem]

I don't (and won't) have a credit card or any way to do international orders. I have to use what I can get in this country (USA).

 

[picante]

@picante Thanks for the update. I've noticed my brain function is down and my need for K has pretty much disappeared lately after being on the Ado/Me Oil for a few weeks. I've got separate Me which I've been using at night as an extra dose, but I'm curious to see how I do on just that and maybe Ado once a week on its own.

Now I'm wondering about doing AdB12 on a separate day, too. I keep seeing people mention it, but I've never actually found where Freddd talks about it. Can anyone provide a link?

 

[ahmo]

@picante Here's where Fred mentioned this. I've been very neglectful in not correcting the Guide to reflect this, maybe today's the day @sheclimber has just posted a blog with a table showing all the supps, brands, dosages and timing...a Masterful job!!!

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...al-5-mthf-versus-egg-yolks.31498/#post-483883

One thing I would do in your position is check out some timing issues. After 10+ years of trying all sports of scheduling and doses of MeCbl and AdoCbl, I find I get the best results if I take MeCbl and AdoCbl separately. Currently I take AdoCbl once a week at 30-50mg sublingual to get CNS penetration. I take it over a 4-5 hour period using 1/2 a cap of Anabol Naturals at as time along the lower lip and gum. This gets it penetrating the nervous system. On that I maintain equilibrium and there is no noticeable startup effect from being “low” each week. I find that the MeCbl and AdoCbl each work better when just the one thing is the majority present in blood. I skip one dose of MeCbl that day. See the MeCbl/AdoCbl ratios post from a week ago or so.

 

[garyfritz]

FYI I discovered that the Aussie oil bottles are NOT empty when they start to spit/spatter. Turns out the silver ring at the base of the squirter can be unscrewed to open it, and then you can see how much is left. It has a short tube to reach the oil, and I think a plunger is supposed to rise to keep the oil up at the level of the tube. But sometimes the plunger doesn't rise. Greg said you can stick a paperclip into the hole on the bottom to push it up. I didn't have any luck with that so I just poured the remaining oil out of a spattering bottle into another bottle. Worst case you could just pour a dose into your palm but it's hard to pour out a measured amount.

For anyone who's been using the oil for a while, have you noticed any skin issues? I use it 3x/day, so I may have more problems than most. If I apply it on the same spot every day, I get a sprinkling of small red pimply eruptions/sores. If I move to another spot, they go away. So I'm being careful to rotate spots where I apply it.

 

[garyfritz]

@Gyre, @garyfritz, are you taking L-carnitine? What kind, how much?
I've been switching between the liquid L-carnitine (250-500 mg/day) and the LCF (Doctor's Best, one 855-mg cap).

I haven't taken any L-carnitine. For the last month or more I haven't been taking LCF either, and I haven't noticed much difference. Though I haven't been sleeping as well for the last few weeks -- maybe I should try adding the LCF back in. Though if anything LCF is supposed to CAUSE sleep problems, not cure them...

 

[picante]

Thanks for the replies, @ahmo and @garyfritz! I'm going to have to peruse the Freddd stuff later because ...

I decided to try AdB12 by itself today, and took 3000 mcg late morning. I have become so foggy and so groggy (and depressed) that I'm aborting the trial. I've just applied my MeB12 oil, which I hope will relieve the problem, and now I'm headed for the bed, kind of like Dorothy in the poppy field.

Hugs to all ... zzzzzzzzz

 

[ahmo]

@garyfritz Thank You for working out how to see how much is left! I'm only using once/day, switch arms daily, no problems. I'm very with this oil!!

@picante I was trying to post an addition to the above re AdB12, when the server spat. Hope you've been able to it off with no ill effects.

I was going to add that I've now incorporated Martin Pall's recommendations re AdB12 and ALCAR, both of which serve as peroxynitrite scavengers. I've been seeking to understand why I'm having these symptoms, and to sort ammonia from peroxynitrite...which is maybe unnecessary. Anyway, Both AdB12 and ALCAR help w/ oxidative stress. I now take a sublingual AdB12 as needed, away from MB12, and it's been helpful. Also added in ALCAR, approx 1200-1600mg (powder, 1/8-1/4 tsp). ALCAR did nothing for me in therms of B12 protocol, which only really kicked in for me when I added LCF. But for this other reason, scavenging, it's been a great addition.

 

[picante]

I was going to add that I've now incorporated Martin Pall's recommendations re AdB12 and ALCAR, both of which serve as peroxynitrite scavengers.

Where can I find his recommendations?

 

[ahmo]

http://www.thetenthparadigm.org/therapy.htm

 

[PennyIA]

For anyone who's been using the oil for a while, have you noticed any skin issues? I use it 3x/day, so I may have more problems than most. If I apply it on the same spot every day, I get a sprinkling of small red pimply eruptions/sores. If I move to another spot, they go away. So I'm being careful to rotate spots where I apply it.

I haven't noticed an issue (which I'm super sensitive, so I did worry about it). I do try to do 3 times a day, but have gotten lazy lately. Hopefully work will settle down a little and I can get back into a better routine again.

I did start out rotating where I apply - but then I had that warming sensation, and started to apply it regularly to my sore left calf - and it was nice and pleasant - so most of the time, that's where I'm applying.

 

[garyfritz]

I decided to try AdB12 by itself today, and took 3000 mcg late morning. I have become so foggy and so groggy (and depressed) that I'm aborting the trial. I've just applied my MeB12 oil, which I hope will relieve the problem, and now I'm headed for the bed, kind of like Dorothy in the poppy field.

Clearly different people have different responses. I've never gotten that brain fog response from ado, though it does help me sleep if I wake up with symptoms. Greg says that the mixture of methyl and ado works well for many people with CF. It works very well for me. I've tried taking just methyl, and one ado + two methyl per day. Neither one worked as well. I haven't tried taking a massive dose of ado once per week, partly because I'm afraid what shape I would be in if I went without the ado for a week. As long as the mixed oil keeps working so well for me, I'll just stick with that.

 

[Sherpa]

So far I have been pretty conservative with B12 supplementing. I can be sensitive to stimulating nutrients and I go slow, too slow sometimes. The max I have regularly taken is 1/2 a County Life 5mg, once a day in the a.m. I tried adenosylcobalmin by itself and it was nothing special.

The other day I decided to add 1.25mg adenosylcobalmin sublingual to my morning dose of 2.5mg CL. WOW! Amazing effects:: mood boost, sexual interest, energy and muscle stamina. I felt almost like a new man. Encouraged... later that day I took an additional 1mg Enzy B12 + 1.25mg AdB12. (Total daily dose: 3.5mg Me, 2.5mg AdI). I started to feel manic, anxious, over-charged. I drove around town and did errands for hours with no hint of fatigue. But I felt great but "strung out." I slept OK but woke up the next morning feeling B12 charged supercharged... and overmethylated. 50mg Niacin brought me down. I took no B12 that day and by nightfall low mood, fatigue, and other signs I assumed were B12 deficiency set in.

So the good news is that AdenoB12 + MethylB12 may be a powerful combination that could work for me. It appears I have a deficiency and that both work much stronger than either one individually.

So I just ordered the Me/Adl oil.

I think it could be helpful, but I don't want to get 'blown away' .. I likely need to "build up" my B12 tolerance for the smoothest transition from low dose sublingals to the spray.

What is a "ballpark equivalent" (rough guess) of the sublingual equivalent dosages of MeB12 and AdB12 to achieve a similar level of effect of 1 spray Me/Abl oil?