The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Transdermal B12 oils

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by garyfritz, Oct 14, 2014.

  1. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    A quick Google search for "transdermal b12 compounding pharmacy" found many compounding pharmacies that can prepare B12 oils.

    http://www.lcrx.com/index.html in Oregon
    http://leesilsby.com/f-a-q-on-methylcobalamin in Ohio

    Here's a compounding pharmacy locator for all English-speaking countries plus Mexico:
    http://www.bullseyelocations.com/pages/CompounderConnect

    There are a couple of brands on Amazon. Here's one:

    www.amazon.com/Vita-Sciences-Maxasorb-Vitamin-Methylcobalamin/dp/B00I2THMAW

    Using a search on Amazon you'd want to be sure you were getting a product meant for vitamin therapy, not skin therapy, such as a "soothing" skin cream.
     
    Little Bluestem likes this.
  2. garyfritz

    garyfritz Senior Member

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    Thanks @CFS_for_19_years -- I should always remember GIYF. :) However there's a very big difference between "sure we can whip up some B12 oil," and "we tried many oil/emulsion formulations before we found one that worked well, and this one is shown to work well with animal testing and successful anecdotal human results, with human testing in progress." Most of the compounding pharmacies you linked just had FAQs talking about B12, and several were saying they could prepare injected B12 for you. I didn't see any that talked about transdermal oils.

    The Amazon product may work very well. However it's about $0.66 per 320mcg dose, vs about $0.80 per 750mcg dose from B12oils.com, so it's twice as expensive per mg. And the B12oils.com product comes with invaluable advice from Greg. I'll stick with a known successful product, but it's good to know about alternatives.
     
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  3. garyfritz

    garyfritz Senior Member

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  4. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    I had to Google GIYF to figure out what it meant - the irony!

    You didn't look far enough in the websites I mentioned, but that would have taken some time on your part. These are only two of several hundred compounding pharmacies that are available worldwide. My point was that someone in Canada could look for a pharmacy in Canada, someone in Australia could look for a pharmacy in Australia, etc. I specifically posted links of those two pharmacies because they did mention transdermal delivery of vitamin B12.

    http://leesilsby.com/f-a-q-on-methylcobalamin

    http://www.lcrx.com/compounding_news_past.html

    Thanks for doing the math. I didn't take the time to look at all of the transdermal B12 products on Amazon as it would have taken more hours than I have at the moment to distinguish skin care creams from products meant to deliver a therapeutic dose of B12. However, I might do that at a later date.

    Nothing wrong with that.
     
  5. garyfritz

    garyfritz Senior Member

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    I did indeed skim over the leesilsby.com page too quickly. When I saw the "how to give an injection" video, followed by "inside your packet you will find pre-filled B12 syringes" etc, I didn't look much closer.

    I did a bit of searching at Amazon. Most of the theraputic B12 products I found (as opposed to the skin creams) were unsuitable IMHO, as they used cyano or were too expensive, or just didn't provide basic details like dosage or doses per container. The Neuro-Immune Stabilizer product I linked above might be a very good alternative. It's intended for use with autism, so it's not just a "get more energy with B12!!" product, and it's very economical.
     
    CFS_for_19_years likes this.
  6. Idie

    Idie

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    Hi Gary,

    We haven't talked cost yet as I am still researching. I work in the health care field so I have lots of resources to verify a whole host of things. I have verified that the recipe for the transdermal process does allow the large molecule of B12 to enter the dermis. I have also verified that the method shows good efficacy....meaning that studies show that it can keep levels high for longer. The recipe of the oils is proprietary and only the compounding pharmacies that belong to the international group of compounding pharmacies can use the proprietary blend. They have members in Australia. I have not decided which route to go---Greg's blend or my own compounding pharmacy route.

    As to how much I inject...yes it is a lot. It probably is not best to do it once per day. I would be better off injecting a smaller dose twice per day but my busy lifestyle makes that an inconvenience. My situation is much like Freddds. Freddd is the one who got me on the road to wellness and I will forever be grateful to him for helping me regain some quality of life. I need a lot of B12 to keep symptoms at bay. I was a mess about 6 years ago and had what I would describe as a total crash. It took me 2 years to recover well enough that I could begin to experiment with my dosing etc.

    I would love to not have to inject and the sublinguals are such a pain and I would have to use a lot of them to keep symptoms under control. The B12 oils would be great. I have been reading your posts and watching your progress closely. Since I am in the US, I would prefer to get my product close to home but would be willing to order from Greg if I knew it worked. So, in a sense you are my test pilot.

    I will let you know as I learn more. You are right about Greg, he is very responsive.
     
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  7. garyfritz

    garyfritz Senior Member

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    That's very good to hear! There are a lot of products out there that have no evidence behind them so it's great that they're testing their product carefully.

    Is there a particular name for this product? How do you know if a compounding pharm is in the group?

    I think we have a lot in common. I also need a lot of B12, much more than Greg expected. I was just lucky that I discovered B12 much sooner after my symptoms started to hit, and so hopefully I'll avoid a lot of the problems caused by years of acute B12 deficiency.

    I've been using 1 of the adeno/methyl and 2 of the pure-methyl per day, which works out to just over 2mg mB12 and just under 2mg adenoB12. The results I'm getting are MUCH better than 20-30mg/day of Country Life mB12, and MUCH MUCH better than 1-4mg/day injected, IM or SC. (Even with as much as 4mg/day injected, I still needed my full dose of 20mg CL. If I tried to get by with just the injected, I would crash hard after 2-3 days. So I didn't see much point.)

    If the oils from whatever source work as well for you as they have for me, you'll be able to leave those shots and sublinguals behind! I keep the CL 5mg's around just in case I wake with a case of the "heebie-jeebies," but that had gotten to be pretty rare -- until my dosage problem in the last week. The oils are really great for me.
     
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  8. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    Maybe this will help - I found it when I was looking for compounding pharmacies:

    http://www.iacprx.org/
    The above website has a link in the middle of the page to the compounding pharmacy locator called Compounder Connect™ that I mentioned in a previous post:


     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2014
  9. garyfritz

    garyfritz Senior Member

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    OK, I kinda assumed it was some subset or smaller group of pharmacies. If the international association was what Idie had in mind, then yes, that's pretty straightforward.
     
  10. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    I just want to thank you folks so much for this thread! I had no idea transdermal b12 was an option. I'm the o[posite of some people here -- I can only handle microdoses sublingually. But i am going to see if transdermal might be better for me.

    @Critterina and @caledonia might be interested in this discussion.
     
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  11. garyfritz

    garyfritz Senior Member

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    FYI I asked them about amounts. They responded with "an approximate amount of each ingredient in the Neuro Immune Stabilizer Cream due to it's pending patent."

    Approximate Per Pump:
    4mg - 5-MTHF (Methyl Tetra Hydro Folate)
    1mg - Hydroxycobalamin (B12)
    1mg - Methylcobalamin (B12)
    1mg - P5P (B6)

    I asked if they'd done any testing to verify efficacy of their transdermal application, and the person said he "cannot address" the question. Not sure if that means he doesn't know, or they don't want to say.
     
  12. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    Gary that's weird l was sure l asked you a question about a product called Red b 12 and said l would email Greg but l cant find it anyway he replied and told me what l wanted to know and was most helpful.
     
  13. garyfritz

    garyfritz Senior Member

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  14. Idie

    Idie

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  15. picante

    picante Senior Member

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    I've been in touch with Greg today, too. Concerning my autoimmune thyroid condition, he says:

    "My caveat on this is that you have to have your thyroid functioning to make FAD and FMN [from riboflavin, I gather]. You are not going to get there otherwise.
    There are over 80 enzymes that use FAD/FMN, and most importantly succinate dehydrogenase, MTHR, MTRR, DAO, NOS, MAO and glutathione reductase."

    This is a tad puzzling, because I've also read that treating the methylation problems sometimes cures Hashimoto's. And that meB12 is needed for T4-to-T3 conversion. So it sounds like a catch-22.

    Any thoughts on this? Can anyone direct me to more info? This is the first time I've even heard of FAD and FMN.
     
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  16. garyfritz

    garyfritz Senior Member

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    I ordered on the 3rd and they just arrived today, so 10 days. I think it was a little faster last time.
     
  17. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    I tried some of this today:
    www.amazon.com/Vita-Sciences-Maxasorb-Vitamin-Methylcobalamin/dp/B00I2THMAW

    I used an amount approximately equivalent to what I have been taking sublingually, but didn't feel much. tried a bit more, still nothing. In a couple of days I will try a larger dose. (First, tomorrow I will go back to my sublingual, so I don't lose ground if I am not absorbing the transdermal.)
     
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  18. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Question - has anyone on this thread who requires large amounts of B12 been tested for low lithium? Lithium assists B12 and folate transport into the cells. You would test via a hair mineral test or urine essential elements test. Supplementation would be low dose - 1.2mg of lithium orotate.

    I cover this in Roadblocks to Successful Methylation linked in my signature links.
     
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  19. garyfritz

    garyfritz Senior Member

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    I have not been tested, @caledonia (at least not recently). But I've taken lithium orotate before, and am taking it now -- I'm out of town but I think it's 5mg Pure Encapsulations -- and I didn't feel a thing from it.
     
  20. Idie

    Idie

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    Hi Gary---received my compounded transdermal B12 cream today from my pharmacy. I will be trialing it for 15 days to see if it works for me. My daughter was supposed to receive the B12 Oils from Greg today but they have not arrived yet. She will be trialing those. So, we will compare. We'll let you know how that goes.

    The cream is made by using a wetting agent to dissolve the B12. It is then mixed with a trandermal cream which is propriety from the compounding pharmacy. I learned the solubility of the Methyl may be the key for me. If I understood Greg correctly, the solubility issue might be why my injections are hit and miss. If the Methyl is not soluble enough, you won't absorb it well. It sounds like it might very much be a technique issue when mixing the Methyl. Anyway, the way he described it, it made sense to me.

    I tried my first dose of the cream a short time ago---pretty messy. Bright red from the B12 so one certainly doesn't want to get it on your clothes. It is recommended to rub it into the skin in low light. The cream is in preloaded in amber colored syringes to protect it from the light and then you dispense what you need. It is difficult to see the numbers in an amber colored syringe so I can tell that will be a bit challenging.

    Your good experience has given me hope that this might work for me. Keeping my fingers crossed. I will give status reports over the next 15 days.

    I hope you are still doing well with the oils.
     
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