Transdermal B12 oils

[winston]

Huh again. Either Google changed the syntax for site searches, or my memory is more faulty than I thought.

"magnesium oil" -site:somesite.com

doesn't work now. But remove the - and it does:

"magnesium oil" site:somesite.com

Hi Gary, I am new here and have been following this thread. I have had CFS for 14 years and last year found out I was homozygous a1298c. My homozygous mutations are VDR Bsm, MAO-A,R297R, BHMT-02
Heterozygous mutations are COMT V158M, COMT H62H, MTRR A A66G, MTRR A664A, BHMT-08, AHCY-02, AHCY-19, CBS A360A

 

[winston]

Hi Gary, I am new here and have been following this thread. I have had CFS for 14 years and last year found out I was homozygous a1298c. My homozygous mutations are VDR Bsm, MAO-A,R297R, BHMT-02
Heterozygous mutations are COMT V158M, COMT H62H, MTRR A A66G, MTRR A664A, BHMT-08, AHCY-01,AHCY-19, CBS A360A. I did talk to Greg but the problem I have is I need to get off my antidepressant Effexor and anxiety pill Xanax before starting Methyl B12. Start on B2 and his adenosyl B12 to help with depression was the plan. I slowly opened the Effexor capsule and took out 6 beads found out there are over 500 beads in a 150 capsule this will take over a year and I am running out of time due to being 66. Were you on antidepressants? Another dr put me on Methyl B12 and my depression went ballistic so Greg is correct. I don't know much about MTHFR but the B12 oils sound complicated.

 

[garyfritz]

No, thank God I don't suffer from depression. I have no idea how depression, MTHFR, B12, etc might interact. Sorry!

But the oils aren't complicated. Squirt it on your palm, rub it in. Only trick is figuring out how much you need (most people do great with 1 squirt a day) and what flavors work best (methyl, methyl/adenosyl, hydroxyl, etc). Greg can help with that.

 

[winston]

No, thank God I don't suffer from depression. I have no idea how depression, MTHFR, B12, etc might interact. Sorry!

But the oils aren't complicated. Squirt it on your palm, rub it in. Only trick is figuring out how much you need (most people do great with 1 squirt a day) and what flavors work best (methyl, methyl/adenosyl, hydroxyl, etc). Greg can help with that.

Greg, how many people on this forum have been using B12 oils and doing well?
I guess it does not matter I already ordered the B12 oils without methyl and hope it can give me some improvement until I get off my antidepressant and can tolerate methyl. Thank you for you for replying.

Lena

 

[winston]

I have been ordering this B12 oil in 3-packs since last year. I love it and hope I never have to go back to sublinguals. I believe I definitely have been storing B12 in my liver because the other day I forgot to use the B12 with my morning 5mg of methylfolate...and had absolutely no negative effects! I didn't realize I'd skipped a day until it occurred to me the next morning. My B12 deficiency symptoms were never as severe as some on this board, but for the first few months of use if I didn't use it first thing in the morning my energy felt very shaky/unstable; then once I had applied the oil I would start getting an "ahhh..." relaxed/stable feeling. Much more potent than sublinguals (I already had receding gums before starting those anyway, don't need any more of that). I rub one pump of oil into my forearm, then alternate to the other arm every other day. For me it has been totally worth the cost and the ordering from Australia.

Hi I am new here and just ordered the B12 oils from Australia. Are you still doing well on the oils? I am pretty sick with CFS and did talk to Greg and he has 50 people who have CFS who he is helping with the oils. If you don't respond that is OK you are probably out living which I am hoping for.

Lena

 

[garyfritz]

Lena, I don't know how many people here are using the oils -- I would guess at least half a dozen, maybe more? I suspect there are probably some "silent" users we don't know about.

Yes, I'm still doing well. I started taking them in October 2014, and I've been using 3 doses a day of the adenosyl/methyl oil for about a year. My reactions to B12 have changed -- e.g. I don't notice as much muscle tension when I wake up needing B12, so I don't notice the "aahhh" reaction when everything relaxes -- but I'm still feeling good.

 

[winston]

Lena, I don't know how many people here are using the oils -- I would guess at least half a dozen, maybe more? I suspect there are probably some "silent" users we don't know about.

Yes, I'm still doing well. I started taking them in October 2014, and I've been using 3 doses a day of the adenosyl/methyl oil for about a year. My reactions to B12 have changed -- e.g. I don't notice as much muscle tension when I wake up needing B12, so I don't notice the "aahhh" reaction when everything relaxes -- but I'm still feeling good.

Hi Gary, so glad you reply to me. Did you have CFS with Epstein Barr? Also I am guessing you have MTHFR but not my mutation otherwise you would have depression. It is the worse part of it. Still have not received my B12 oils. Greg wants me to get off Effexor so I can take the B12 methyl which I need. Withdrawal can be brutal so I am going slow. I also was diagnosed with adrenal fatigue but a treatment I tried did not work. How did you figure out your health problems were B12 deficiency?
How long were you sick? Glad to hear you are feeling good gives me hope.

 

[garyfritz]

I had a nasty bout of mononucleosis (EBV) in college (40 yrs ago), but no obvious symptoms since then.

I do have MTHFR A1298C, plus most of your mutations and a bunch you don't have. See the listing below my post. Greg says my genome is classic CFS configuration but (thank God, knock on wood, crossed fingers) I've never had CFS.

Nor have I had depression, except a grief-driven period right after a divorce. Which coincidentally (???) was just about the time my B12-deficiency symptoms flared up, in 2012-2013.

Finding B12 was mostly a stroke of luck. I went to a naturopath to try to figure out why I was starting to feel so crappy. She shotgunned me with a bunch of stuff, and one was B12. Fortunately the B12 I selected was a methyl B12 spray, and just a 500mcg daily dose **totally** erased all my symptoms. For 6 months. Then they started coming back, and I've been researching and trying stuff since. Greg's ado/me oil works better than anything else I've tried.

 

[winston]

I had a nasty bout of mononucleosis (EBV) in college (40 yrs ago), but no obvious symptoms since then.

I do have MTHFR A1298C, plus most of your mutations and a bunch you don't have. See the listing below my post. Greg says my genome is classic CFS configuration but (thank God, knock on wood, crossed fingers) I've never had CFS.

Nor have I had depression, except a grief-driven period right after a divorce. Which coincidentally (???) was just about the time my B12-deficiency symptoms flared up, in 2012-2013.

Finding B12 was mostly a stroke of luck. I went to a naturopath to try to figure out why I was starting to feel so crappy. She shotgunned me with a bunch of stuff, and one was B12. Fortunately the B12 I selected was a methyl B12 spray, and just a 500mcg daily dose **totally** erased all my symptoms. For 6 months. Then they started coming back, and I've been researching and trying stuff since. Greg's ado/me oil works better than anything else I've tried.

Hi Gary, what is your opinion on folic acid. Greg says you need it and Dr Ben Lynch says not to have it. My chiro who treats 5 patients with MTHFR says folic acid and sugar are poison for us. Do you eat gluten and anything with folic acid in it, do you have any diet restrictions? Just checked on B12 oils they have been in Los Angeles since the 9th? I live 3 hours from LA. I pray to God to ease my FEAR not fear of dying but fear of staying like this.

Lena

 

[garyfritz]

You need folate. Greg (and many others) considers folic acid and methyl folate to be essentially identical, and used identically in the body. When he says "you need folic acid" he means you need folate. Not everybody shares his opinion. Lynch and others believe some people have trouble converting folic acid, and you should only supplement with methyl folate.

I'm very lucky. I'm not bothered by a lot of things that trouble people here. I eat wheat, gluten, etc. I try to avoid folic acid just because I think it's a good idea, and I **think** I've seen some relatively mild adverse effects when I eat a lot of bread products containing folic acid. (I pigged out on deep-dish pizza one night and didn't feel well in the night, until I took almost a mg of methyl folate, then *poof* everything was better. Hmm.)

 

[Lynn_M]

This is an update on the impact of transdermal B12 oil (adeno/methylB12) on my MMA (methylmalonic acid) levels. I started using sublingual MB12 after I tested deficient in B12 in 2008 on a Spectracell Micronutrient test. I've been using the B12oils product since June 2013. On 11/4/14, after 17 months of 1 dose a day, my Great Plains OAT showed my MMA to be 0.91 (ref <2.3). 1 dose=1pump. About 3 months ago, I increased it to 1 dose in the morning and 1 at night, and my GP OAT MMA was measured at 0.59 on 12/8/15, so a nice improvement. That's at the lower end of the 1 s.d. range, so seems like it's at a good level now.

I would say the B12oil product is definitely effective in increasing my adenosylB12. I haven't had serum B12 measured so I can't attest to my methylB12 levels.

 

[winston]

This is an update on the impact of transdermal B12 oil (adeno/methylB12) on my MMA (methylmalonic acid) levels. I started using sublingual MB12 after I tested deficient in B12 in 2008 on a Spectracell Micronutrient test. I've been using the B12oils product since June 2013. On 11/4/14, after 17 months of 1 dose a day, my Great Plains OAT showed my MMA to be 0.91 (ref <2.3). 1 dose=1pump. About 3 months ago, I increased it to 1 dose in the morning and 1 at night, and my GP OAT MMA was measured at 0.59 on 12/8/15, so a nice improvement. That's at the lower end of the 1 s.d. range, so seems like it's at a good level now.

I would say the B12oil product is definitely effective in increasing my adenosylB12. I haven't had serum B12 measured so I can't attest to my methylB12 levels.

Hi Lynn, how are you feeling? I am new on this forum and have got in touch with Greg and ordered B12 oil. In all the years of illness with CFS I have tried everything even Freddd's protocol which was like a miracle for 3 days and then I was crashed. Last year found out I was homozygous A1298C so started researching MTHFR and found not much help so hope B12 oils can help. How sick were you and do you have MTHFR?

Lena

 

[Lynn_M]

Lena,
I am homozygous 1298C and also have some other snps which have been shown to interfere with B12 metabolism. When I did the Spectracell test, the only nutrient I was deficient in was B12, in addition to low overall antioxidation function. I do not have CFS and have not experienced the symptoms prototypical of B12 deficiency. That is why I need to rely on testing rather than symptom improvement. My symptoms have been low energy and low motivation. I'm feeling better since I started on the b12 oils, but a change in other, totally unrelated, factors could be responsible for that, so I'm reluctant to say it's because of the B12oils.

I started using the B12oils in March 2013, when it was just adenoB12, 3 months before it was commercially available. Back then Greg included Vitamin D3 in the formulation, for a dose of 2,000 IU (IIRC) per pump. He has since removed it from the adenoB12/methylB12 formulation, but upon my request he has added it back in for the pumps I order. To minimize shipping expense per pump, I order 6 pumps at a time, which is the max he can ship without getting into customs declarations. The B12oil has a long shelf life.

Greg switched to a bigger pump awhile back (1-2 years ago?), and each pump now lasts at least 45 days. Someone earlier on this thread talked about unscrewing the cap and using a dropper to get a smaller dose of the oil than one pump would put out. After reading what Freddd has written about how methylB12 converts to hydroxyB12 with very minimal light exposure, this doesn't seem to me to be a good practice.

I have consulted with Greg on my Organic Acid (OAT) tests. He thinks OAT tests are good, often picking up on dysregulations that the usual lab tests don't pick up. If you aren't feeling right, it can be a blessing to finally have a lab result that identifies that something is wrong. Since you have now ordered from B12oils, if you were inclined to get your own OAT test, I think Greg would help interpret it for you.

Vitamin B2 is a cofactor for Vitamin B12 metabolism, so make sure you have enough Vitamin B2 on board.

 

[winston]

Lena,
I am homozygous 1298C and also have some other snps which have been shown to interfere with B12 metabolism. When I did the Spectracell test, the only nutrient I was deficient in was B12, in addition to low overall antioxidation function. I do not have CFS and have not experienced the symptoms prototypical of B12 deficiency. That is why I need to rely on testing rather than symptom improvement. My symptoms have been low energy and low motivation. I'm feeling better since I started on the b12 oils, but a change in other, totally unrelated, factors could be responsible for that, so I'm reluctant to say it's because of the B12oils.

I started using the B12oils in March 2013, when it was just adenoB12, 3 months before it was commercially available. Back then Greg included Vitamin D3 in the formulation, for a dose of 2,000 IU (IIRC) per pump. He has since removed it from the adenoB12/methylB12 formulation, but upon my request he has added it back in for the pumps I order. To minimize shipping expense per pump, I order 6 pumps at a time, which is the max he can ship without getting into customs declarations. The B12oil has a long shelf life.

Greg switched to a bigger pump awhile back (1-2 years ago?), and each pump now lasts at least 45 days. Someone earlier on this thread talked about unscrewing the cap and using a dropper to get a smaller dose of the oil than one pump would put out. After reading what Freddd has written about how methylB12 converts to hydroxyB12 with very minimal light exposure, this doesn't seem to me to be a good practice.

I have consulted with Greg on my Organic Acid (OAT) tests. He thinks OAT tests are good, often picking up on dysregulations that the usual lab tests don't pick up. If you aren't feeling right, it can be a blessing to finally have a lab result that identifies that something is wrong. Since you have now ordered from B12oils, if you were inclined to get your own OAT test, I think Greg would help interpret it for you.

Vitamin B2 is a cofactor for Vitamin B12 metabolism, so make sure you have enough Vitamin B2 on board.[/
Thank you Lynn, I am on B2 waiting for B12 oils to arrive.

Lena

 

[winston]

Hi Gary & Lynn, received B oils yesterday "B Group", used a dose after dinner and did not sleep well. Took a dose this morning and will take it in the morning from now on. I can't take Methyl B12 until off of Effexor so opening the 150mg capsule and taking 4 extra beads out each day. In one month should be able to get a script for 75mg and continuing the process. Takes longer than what I would like but that is all I can tolerate. Both of you never mentioned depression & anxiety as symptoms. Do you have any ideas of a faster way to get off this drug without going ballistic?
Lena

 

[Lynn_M]

Lena,
I know nothing about getting off of Effexor or why you've been advised to not start methyl B12 until you're off of it.

I would say my low motivation was/is conflated with depression. My OAT tests show very low dopamine and low serotonin. But hard to attribute causation. Having a husband develop dementia because of an unrecognized subdural hematoma resulting from falling on ice and hitting his head, and then 3 years later, because of a drug they gave him for agitation, the loss of ability to chew, swallow, or walk, and finally death, certainly did me in for some years. Doing some better now.

 

[garyfritz]

I can't help you either, Lena. Thankfully I have no experience with, or knowledge of, depression or how it interacts with B12 or anything else we're talking about.

 

[Little Bluestem]

I can't take Methyl B12 until off of Effexor so opening the 150mg capsule and taking 4 extra beads out each day. In one month should be able to get a script for 75mg and continuing the process. Takes longer than what I would like but that is all I can tolerate.

I don't know anything about Effexor, but I know that some people have to go off of some antidepressants very slowly. Pay attention to your body and do not go any faster than it likes.

If you do a search of the site, you will probably find one or more threads about going off of antidepressants.

 

[PennyIA]

Greg, how many people on this forum have been using B12 oils and doing well?
I guess it does not matter I already ordered the B12 oils without methyl and hope it can give me some improvement until I get off my antidepressant and can tolerate methyl. Thank you for you for replying.

Lena

I know these oils have been MUCH better for me than the sublinguals as they only take a few seconds whereas trying to get a sublingual remembered to be taken, let alone left in my mouth for any length of time left me feeling like it just wasn't working. I take more than recommended - switching between b12 methyl and b12 ice (adenosyl and other things). I've re-ordered once thinking that I was almost out - and got the order to the US long before I ran out ... I want to say I started using them shortly after finding this thread in early 2015 - so they seem to last me quite a while.

 

[Johnmac]

@garyfritz, how are the oils going?

Did you top up your 'reservoir' after a time, enabling you to reduce dosages?

I assume Freddd's idea that methyl & adenosyl should be taken on separate days hasn't affected your gains, so far as you know?

I'm going to try @ahmo's DIY TD method, as I'm in Cambodia; but when I return to Australia next month I'll order the oils. I gather from ahmo & others that the DIY method works; but from Greg via you that the oils have better carrying capacity.

I've emailed Greg asking what he thinks about the viability of TD methylfolate. That + the B12 oils would make life a lot easier for many people.

@sueami, how are you doing with all this, if you don't mind me asking?