Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Athene, Dec 2, 2009.
I am awaiting my metal tests.
currently detoxing mercury with chlorella, spirulina, plus other stuff I cant spell and homeopathics
B12 shot..... the next day like I was on 10 valium....next day like a rocket....high as a kite. ...experimenting whilst I wait for more test results.
I'm being chelated using intravenous EDTA. My doctor said he is using EDTA because it won't damage the fillings in my teeth. The only time I ever felt bad after one of these IVs is when a substitute phlebotomist set the drip rate way to fast.
On the morning of the IV, I don't take any mineral supplements, so that EDTA won't be going after anything extra. Afterward I take Cell Food to try to get trace minerals back right away, plus my normal minerals. My doctor told me Cell Food is not necessary, but I use it anyway. The doctor is tracking me with the Doctor's Data Urine Toxic Metals test.
I'm seeing an integrative medicine doctor, and I'm never sure what to think of the nontraditional approach. I have a friend with CFS who said that chelation made a significant improvement in his health. But there are also accusations that chelation is being used when it is not needed.
Klinghardt is using a new product (just available I believe) that he is finding to be the best and gentlest metal chelator: http://www.selfhealth.co.uk/Dr-Dietrich-Klinghardt-Detox-Physician/MicroSilica-5g.html
I haven't tried it but plan to watch the results others report and consider it. I have also had a hard time with other chelators--including EDTA IV.
Has anyone tried this?
I'm doing okay, but I just remembered that the doctor is not doing this at full strength. I don't remember how much he cut it, but I think I might be at 1/4 strength. IOW, going slowly, but taking longer.
Everything you mention above concerns me. I've come to believe that one of the worst things we can do is to start mobilizing dangerous toxins before our bodies have the capacity to effectively deal with them. So many of the symptoms you're describing sounds a lot like toxic overload, something I think we should all try to assiduously avoid as much as possible.
I've found clay foot baths and far infrared saunas to be effective, gentle and and controllable detoxification therapies. I'm also a believer in learning how to do coffee enemas to help effectively address any major detoxification symptoms that may arise when doing any kind of detoxification regimine.
Best Regards, Wayne
Thanks Wayne for your detoxification ideas, they sound like a good place to start.
Wildaisy, your reactions to B12 are very probably not detox, but the wacko B12 "startup" that Freddd discusses in his protocol. I know some people believe this is dangerous doctrine, so I'd encourage you to research and decide for yourself. Freddd's theory is partly based on the notion that anyone who is deficient in B12 will have a strong (and often unpleasant) reaction to it. My own experience is that my symptoms get worse before they get better on the active B12 protocol, which is what makes it such a rocky road. In my case, I was pretty much thrown to the ground for a couple of months, starting; now every time I up my dosage I get more crashiness, but it's kind of turned to Crashiness Lite, and another set of symptoms seem to come up for review as I continue.
Even while crashy, I've had measurable results in improving several symptoms, including ones that stuck around when I was feeling better on other treatments. And many many people, including Freddd himself, have been greatly helped after they went through the nasty bits. Freddd describes it as being like this: since your system is getting so little input, it turns the output volume on high. When it finally starts getting more input (B12 active forms), it's like what happens with an electric instrument whose volume has been turned down and is then turned up; the amplifier suddenly howls, shrieks, crackles, and spits out all kinds of weirdness until the volume can be adjusted to meet the new level of input.
I'm really convinced now that active B12 deficiency is crucial, probably primary, in CFS/FM, so I'd encourage you to look into this. I've done detoxes, so I can understand the confusion, but to me there is a difference in the quality of the effects. If you asked me what that difference was, I'd have to think hard before I could articulate it, but I can feel it.
What Fred considered to be B12 "start-up" symptoms turned out to be very REAL DETOX for me.
I knew I "felt" like heavy metals were being mobilized, as I'd had these kind of symptoms before, but just to PROVE IT to myself, him, and anyone else, I did a fecal metals test. The results proved conclusively that heavy metals were being moved out en masse! Many of them showed up, but THALLIUM was the one at the highest level.
Rich has addressed the B12 causing metal detox issue as well. And others on this forum have had similar reactions.
Are you just taking B12 or on a full protocol for detoxing the metals? I'd be interested to kno what you're using.
Also, is there anything in particular that makes you sure it's a detox effect not a bad reaction to something? I was taking glutathione (amongst other things) and felt as if I were accumulating poison in me and it made me feel so bad I stopped the whole regime. I don't know how to tell if this was a detox thing or a bad reaction. Could you tell me where you got your fecal analysis done and was it expensive?
I stopped taking the B12 a couple months ago. I'm not strong enough to put myself through a heavy metal detox right now, which is what happens when I ingest active B12.
I know FOR SURE that the B12 initiated a heavy metal detox, because of the heavy metals--in my fecal test--at that time.
Here's the place I got the test from. You don't need a doctor's prescription and it costs $150. They use Doctor's Data LAbs.
Hey DB, thanks for the comments in the other thread about your metal detox syptoms. I'll reply here though as we have a thread dedicated to metals. All the stuff you said made sense and I forget what you said now, but yes I have some of those too. I know you mentioned "frontal headaches" I think that is a yeast die off symptom for me? I don't normally get yeast dieoff from metal detox. I get more yeast from metals i think..??
I think the increased brain fog, depression, and maybe extra yeast on the tongue are part of what I experience when detoxing, or whatever I'm a doing with metals. Having a spell today.
I read in that great sushi KPU article that dicusses fiber and saunas are important support for helping the metal out too. I'm sure I may be stating the obvious for many here....but good article!
I am also lost on what thread I posted what on, but this one is on target for me. On another thread I mentioned that I was going to do a laser detox for mercury yesterday. I have been dumping it through oral chelation and my doc thought I was ready for the boost of the laser treatment. This is the 2nd one I have had for mercury.
On the first one I did feel pretty lousy for the 24 hours of the treatment--then much better. With this one I started feeling better within a few hours and by this morning I felt like a new person! Whoopy! :Retro smile: Before the laser (and photon) treatment my doc also gave me a low dose of DMSA and a big dose of chlorella--the two things I had tested best for right now.
I am beginning to see that many of my worst symptoms (there for decades) are related to mercury. When I treat it, they disappear. I wish it weren't such a long story to get the Hg out. But I am on the road.
I just want to mention that EDTA suppositories are helping with my muscle pain. The first two doses gave me frontal headache but they are gone now.
when chelating metals, in general do they come out in a steady stream or do they tend to come out in big dumps every now and then? I am using EDTA. thanks
Very interesting question and I would really like to know too, if anyone can answer this.
I have been getting the feeling that I get big dumps of metals from time to time, and at other times not much is happening, though it seems strange and I cannot think of why it might happen.
I've had a few urine tests that show metals steadily coming out but most often also elevated levels of 1 metal in particular. My biggest excretion showed off the page lead and barium that's 10x top of range for lead, and I didn't feel toxic, though my minerals felt out of balance.
Seeing these high numbers made me wonder if I was eliminating all I was mobilising. I wouldn't want to move toxins from a relatively safe palce to somewhere more damaging to me. (I wasn't using chealtors, just supporting organs and tissues.)
I'm guessing we have different patterns.
Amy Yasko has a revoloving door theory, i.e. our channels of elimiation have a certain capacity to get rid of toxins, you can't push them all out at once.
My sense is I'm not just moving metals but other toxins too. Pesticide keeps coming up for me. (via bioresonance testing)
I've just seen Kenny De Meirleir and asked him about detox symptoms (mainly headaches and palpitations and severe muscle weakness for me). He said this happens because my liver has run out of B12. It has been so depleted for so long that it runs out in no time once it gets going on detoxing.
He said the way to get rid of these detox symptoms is not to try to slow down the detox by lowering the dose but to INCREASE it. I am now in jecting 10mg of B12 a day. (Previously 10mg 3 times a week).
The difference is incredible. No headaches, less weakness and my energy/functionality has gone up overnight from about 3 to about 7 (On that 1 to 10 scale, I cannot remember the name of it). As soon as I feel a bit of a headache coming on I stuff two B12 sublingual tablets in my mouth and once the tablets have dissolved over the course of an hour, the headache is gone.
His view of detoxing is that the only "bottleneck" that exists is the quantity of essential nutrients you give to your liver to do the job.
Very interesting, thank you for sharing this with us. Please continue to update us on your progress when you can.
Thanks for the update. Very interesting point.As Hysterical said, please keep us posted of your further progress.
what type of b12 are u injecting, hydroxy or methyl?
fascinating stufff!! tnx for posting.
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