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Took folate, felt sick, stopped. Then had 5 days of great mental clarity. Then back to normal. Why?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Tom_Nightingale, Jun 7, 2013.

  1. Tom_Nightingale

    Tom_Nightingale

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    Hi,

    So like I said, I took folate (methylfolate to be exact) and felt quite bad. I stopped, then experienced excellent clarity of thought for 5-6 days. The benefits went away and I returned to my normal, struggling self.

    I have a decent understanding of methylation, but I have no idea why I respond so poorly to nearly every methylation cycle supplement I have taken save methylcobalamin. This experience with methylfolate has got me excited, but I don't want to suffer through the pains i felt while taking it to have a few days of mental clarity.

    Why is this going on? Anyone? I am heterozygous MTHFR a1298c, have one homozygous CBS gene, 2 heterozygous COMT and a (+) MAOA

    What's going on in those 5 days?

    I'll be watching this thread closely, ask any questions you want and I'll reply promptly.
     
    Wayne likes this.
  2. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    What was the dose of the methylfolate, and what does do you take of methylB12?
     
  3. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Hi Tom, thanks for posting your experiences, which seem to have some similarities to mine. The exact product I used was "Thorne 5-MTHF 5 mg". On the "Supplement Facts" on the back it says, "Folate (as L-5-Methyltetrahydrate); 5 mg; 1,250% DV". It was prescribed to me yesterday by my ND. The following is the brief report I emailed to him this morning:

    June 7, 2013
     
  4. Sherlock

    Sherlock bicarb for exercise recovery and taming candida

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    Hi, it sounds like you just need a lower dose.
     
    Lotus97 likes this.
  5. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

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    5 mg of methylfolate - does that sound a bit high to start with???
     
  6. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    I'm not sure if you're referring to Tom or me. Tom apparently took methylfolate, but didn't mention how much he took. I took "L-5-Methyltetrahydrate" and took 5 mg. That WAS too much for me. I think I'm going to take about half that the next time I take some, dissolve it in a dropper bottle, and take it throughout the day.
     
  7. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

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    isn't L-5-MTH another name for methyfolate?
     
  8. determined

    determined Senior Member

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    Hi Tom,
    Your period of mental clarity reminded me that I experienced something very similar when I was starting up the supplements in my apparently unique way ( http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/methylation-very-low-very-slow-results.9849/ ).

    I cant' remember exactly when the clarity occurred......but it was amazing. It only lasted a day or so, but wow! My dose is VERY different from yours, but it's interesting that we both had this "side effect."
     
  9. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Some people can only tolerate low doses (and often don't need much higher doses) while others seem to tolerate (and possibly need) much higher doses.

    Based on what I've heard so far, SNPs don't always seem to be an accurate indicator of how a person will respond to methylation. This is unfortunate (if indeed true) since I payed for the test already:(
     
  10. Tom_Nightingale

    Tom_Nightingale

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    I took 400mcg once a day, and quit after 23 days. So quite small amounts over an extended period of time. I tried taking 400mcg once every other day, and I could tell the negative effects were back again already
     
  11. Tom_Nightingale

    Tom_Nightingale

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    So I took 400mcg for ~3 weeks, that seems smaller than a lot of people. Could I sell be taking too much, or is there another issue?
     
  12. Tom_Nightingale

    Tom_Nightingale

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    A quick look online, and I don't even see anyone selling less than 400mcg methylfolate. Makes me wonder if I am extraordinarily sensitive...
     
  13. Sherlock

    Sherlock bicarb for exercise recovery and taming candida

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    It sure looks like it, Tom. Just too much of a good thing, but still a good thing for you.

    Have you ever tried a methyl donor like TMG (tri methyl glycine) ?
     
  14. Sherlock

    Sherlock bicarb for exercise recovery and taming candida

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    Some people get a powerful effect from 2mg melatonin. But 30mg doesn't affect me at all. Someone here was taking 100mg.

    So yes, there's a lot of variance in these things.

    As an example, I remember a news story from around a half dozen years ago, where a woman was arrested for a drug crime and endangering her baby somehow. It turned out that her genetics made her not break down (in the liver) the opiate that she was taking in a very small dose, so that she ended up with a very large dose in her blood.

    Having regular grapefruit does that for a lot of prescription drugs, since it sidetracks the enzyme that is used to break down the drugs.

    Other people can be impaired in clearance via the kidney. The manner of clearance varies according ot the drug.

    Since your onset of bad effects took 3 weeks, that's a clue that maybe you were accumulating too much. The quick return of bad effects when you re-introduced the drug might mean you still hadn't washed it out of your system yet.
     
  15. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I've heard from close to 10 people who weren't able to tolerate 200 mcg of methylfolate. And one the main reasons Rich chose the Neurological Health Formula as the multivitamin for his protocol was because it didn't have methylfolate. Since some people aren't able to tolerate much methylfolate at the beginning of methylation he wanted to make sure people would still have a multi they could take even if they weren't able to take methylfolate at first. That said, most people are able to tolerate at least 200 mcg of methylfolate and some people do need higher doses which is why Rich gives instructions on increasing methylfolate and switching to methylcobalamin (but only if necessary). According to this study which used approximately 250 mcg of methylfolate many people don't need a higher dose: http://www.mecfs-vic.org.au/sites/w...Article-2009VanKonynenburg-TrtMethylStudy.pdf
     
  16. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

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    I'm taking 2-3 mg of Folate (as Metafolin) per day. I just started looking at this Methyfolate a bit more this week. I had focused on my B12 mostly. The muslce tingling and nerve explosions have reduced but I'm noticing more tremors in hands, arms and legs. Not sure if they are related.
     
  17. Tom_Nightingale

    Tom_Nightingale

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    Yes I've tried TMG, could not tolerate it even in small doses
     
  18. Tom_Nightingale

    Tom_Nightingale

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    Could you post some info about Rich? First I'm hearing of him. And what's in the Neuro Health Formula?

    I've tried to start methylation but I found I don't tolerate anything except methylcobalamin it seems. Would it help to take methylcobalamin for some time then begin again with methylfolate?
     
  19. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Rich (username Richvank) and Freddd both have methylation protocols. That study I posted earlier in this thread was actually done with an older version of Rich's protocol. Rich and Dr. Neil Nathan conducted the study with his CFS/ME patients. Rich tends to be more cautious than Freddd in terms of doses (and number of methyl donors) recommended. Both of their protocols are stickied in the methylation/chelation forums. Freddd's has Active B12 in the title and here's a link to Rich's most recent protocol:
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ation-protocol-august-25-2012-revision.19050/
    And here's an article by Rich about why methylation is necessary for people with CFS/ME
    http://phoenixrising.me/research-2/...etion-theory-of-mecfs-by-rich-von-konynenburg
    The NHF is basically just a mulitvitamin with a couple additional ingredients. It's not a bad multivitamin, but I just take a b complex and all my other vitamins and minerals separately since it's cheaper that way. Especially if you want to take higher doses. With multivitamins (and just about any supplement that has 2 or more ingredients) you're paying for convenience.
    I'm more sensitive than others so I had to take just B12 for a month or two and then added folinic acid and just took those for another month or two. I recently added a low dose of methylfolate and seem to be doing ok with it so far.
    You might be sensitive to methyl donors in general then in which case hydroxocobalamin might be better for you. You might do ok with methylcobalamin as long as you take a low dose. It's worth trying that first since hydroxocobalamin is more expensive than methylcobalamin. You might also be more tolerant of methylation if you take some niacin which slows down methylation by using up SAMe.
     
  20. Tom_Nightingale

    Tom_Nightingale

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    Excellent info. I have been taking 100mcg of methylfolate for the last few days and can't tell that it's making anything worse. Ive heard that taking B12 first is the best thing to do, so i think I'll just start taking it now. I tried hydroxocobalamin and felt pretty bad, surprisingly. I'll be sure to check out Rich's protocol
     

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