1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
ME/CFS and the Magic of the Canine Factor
There's been plenty of research indicating that having pets is good for your health. I never really noticed any particular benefits to having cats, though that may have had more to do with my cats. They've been fairly indifferent to my presence and we've shared a live-and-let-live...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Today Wessely authors an article in the Spectator about ME extremists

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Countrygirl, Aug 26, 2011.

  1. Angela Kennedy

    Angela Kennedy *****

    Messages:
    1,026
    Likes:
    152
    Essex, UK
    It's simply not accurate to say that "no accusation was laid at the patients' door specifically or generally - hence the generalised terminology perhaps".

    All the articles and programmes- from the Hawkes article onwards, placed legitimate patient activities such as FOI requests, complaints to official agencies etc. as on a par with the alleged 'death threats' and alleged 'harassment'.

    The way legitimate activities are written into the stories places them on a continuum with the alleged 'death threats', often in the same sentence, often in the same paragraph. Lists of 'bad behaviour' by ME sufferers or their supporters include both legitimate activities and allegations of criminal harassment. The intended effect is to conflate the two. People are being criticised for the legitimate activities as much -in some articles more, when more words are spent describing them (e.g. the Hawkes article) - as the alleged 'criminal harassment'.

    And this was about ME sufferers being critiqued and blamed, not Gulf War Syndrome sufferers, not PTSD sufferers, not Camelford victims (other people with reason to object to Simon Wessely's claims, for example).

    I have shown examples of this before.
  2. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

    Messages:
    5,824
    Likes:
    5,969
    Cornwall England
    Hi Angela,

    You know what I meant. The emails and examples given were not attributed to patients specifically, rather those acts were lumped together under a general term.

    Edit:

    I referred to other commentators (bloggers) taking this cartoon angle: http://pipeline.corante.com/archive...ough_energy_left_for_death_threats_anyway.php

    Should have posted an example I suppose. I did submit a comment (I thought it was fine) but maybe I forgot to post it or it was moderated for some reason (?).
  3. Angela Kennedy

    Angela Kennedy *****

    Messages:
    1,026
    Likes:
    152
    Essex, UK
    And that 'general' term was ME patients and their supporters. Hooper was mentioned specifically in the Hawkes article though.

    But anyone publicly known for writing to say, Wessely's employers (like me- for a very good reason), putting in FOI requests, objecting to the Crawley et al LP trial, etc. etc. have been treated as harassers.
  4. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,309
    Likes:
    840
    UK
    Whatever happened in the past does not excuse the breach of trust shown by all those involved in this media attempt to discredit ME sufferers - first do no harm 4 Docs in my own family tell me - and this is what they done by trying to pass on their personal grudges to a whole community currently living with ME (millions). What has happened to medicine.
  5. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,081
    Likes:
    1,585
    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    Always remember, that it was largely doctors who carried out the T-4 mass murder of the disabled in Germany
    There were far too many to excuse it as being carried out by die-hard nazis as the numbers involved preclude such as being possible (unless the profession had a vaslty higher rate of such allegiance than anywhere else), and after the program was officially stopped but unnofficially encouraged, the murder rates vastly increased, iirc almost four times more died after the offical ending, than had already occured in similar time frame.

    Far FAR too many doctors, then and now are arrogant, uncaring swine. Why this is so is difficult to know. While many doctors are true to the core ethos of a healer, a hell of a lot are ratbags.
    You can't just ignore the fact the two biggest mass murderers in the UK, and in fact one is still world's largest mass murderer, were both doctors.
    That bloody profession needs a serious overhaul, from the OUTSIDE.
  6. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,309
    Likes:
    840
    UK
    Yep - think we've gone a little beyond the Nazis Silverblade - remember the past - yes - but move on - the dynamics are different now - people are different (not uncorruptable or self seeking though). The old institutions here will have to bend to the wiser in a global exchange of science and discovery in which the UK finds it hard to embrace so far. Big fishes in small ponds are not conducive to learning.
  7. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,081
    Likes:
    1,585
    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    dynamics are actually always the same: purely Human ones ;)
    I keep using that era for good reason as it's a perfect spotlight on how people do evil (and good) because it's so extreme.
    Today we have deliberate systems of obfuscation, lies, hypocrisy and means to prevent accountability that are letting corproations and others evade punishment for terrible crimes. They learned lesssons form Nuremberg etc so made damn sure they are "untouchable"

    Hitler, like Stalin and most other such horrors, was a lunatic, the real monsters were the huge numbers of sane folk who followed what was obviously a deranged, wicked load of bullcrap!
    Most people lack the strength of will, the individuality, the true moral courage to stand up and say "yay or nay" in the face of the "crowd's general bent".
    So, if the "crowd" has been swayed to do "bad things", few folk ever stand up to it, this was shown in the infamous Stanford Experiment and other such.

    Now, the British Medical Association was founded in 1832, and what does history teach us about self-regulating bodies with great power and longevity? they inevitably become MONSTERS. This cannot be emphasized enough.
    Churches covering up abominable child abuse in absolute polar contrast to their supposed nature.
    Governments conducting heidous experiments and waging wars over lies, etc etc etc...

    So the BMA (and others) has been covering up doctor's evil deeds for ages, again as I have often said, Dr John Bodkin Adams is perfect proof of this, and that cover up led directly to Shipman's 300 or so slayings....because the reputation of the "professional classes" was more important than being honest and protecting patients!

    Interesting point: Shipman is the ONLY British doctor ever found guilty of murdering his patients, now, given the number and time of british doctors in existance, that is frankly impossible to believe without cover ups occuring, reinforcing the point of very widespread, heinous, secretive and abusive nature of the BMA and other professional groups desperate to keep their "status and good reputations"

    More food for thought:
    You're four times more likely to encounter a psychopath in Big Business than in other areas of life.
    Why? For those psychopaths with better upbringing, they have less beastial needs and modern corporate systems are ideal "hunting grounds" for them, rather than murder. it's abuse bullying, power, wealth they get and it conceals them, they appear charismatic and so are admired
    however they are atrocious leaders in reality, as they simply do not care about their business or staff. Such people are often admired, by all but those who work intimately with them and have the wisdom to see the bloody mess they make of things.

    Now, has anyone considered this of the "professional" classes: doctors, lawyers, politicians etc?
    I'd bet highly that many psychopaths hide behind a medical licence. Perfect cover for them, as their detachment and peculiar mental make up makes the great stress of life and death decisions etc a thrill.

    Another thing is that dealing with life and death etc and the great stress is dangerous for the mental health of those involved
    the military in recent decades has had to seriously re-think and retrain in ways to teach infantrymen to kill, and not become degraded by this.
    While once it was thought best to teach hate of the enemy etc, this turned out to be a disaster because they'd abuse the enemy, slaughter them when not needed (as enemy surrendering is the best outcome as it saves time effort and lives etc, but no one surrenders if they know they're going to be killed)
    and after they left service those who'd engaged in brutal acts had major problems, often commiting violent crimes or killing themselves.
    So, instead the miltary had to teach men to kill to protect their comrades and nation, not merely to slaughter the enemy.
    People are NOT natural killers, utterly not so, takes lot of trianing to make most folk capable of taking a life (thank God), but the "frenzy of the mob/group"is another issue and a dangerous one.

    Doctors kill more folk than the military does by a huge margin. they know many necessary procedures and treatments have risk of death or inevitably bring death, but they must do so to ease suffering and even bring cures. Everyone eventually dies and usually a doctor has ot oversee this very painful end to another person's life.
    it's very tough and hard on them. Note I'm not saying they are murdering people, no! But they know the painkillers, the surgery etc they recommend inevitably has consequences, the morphine that makes a man's last months bareable, may shorten his life by weeks. It is worthwile and legitimate, just...tragic.
    What effect does this have on the doctors' mental health?
    Especially since many junior doctors have been treated absolutely outrageously, forced to work 100+ hour weeks, which is unacceptable in any other job for damn good reason, AND doctors have to make life or death decisions....
    The stress of those terrible work hours can destroy physical and mental health, it's literally a form of torture

    IMHO, the medical profession is deeply "sick in the head", to be blunt about it.
    Thus the abuse many of us have seen personally, even those witout M.E. are indicative of a profession which is criminally negligent and out of control.

    To stop this, it should have, like the police, a completely neutral, outside regulatory and investigative body.

    "Out of court" settlements need banned, these are used by industry and medical profession to hide grave misdeeds and crimes
    see the "Hacking Scandal" in UK for what out of court settlements cover up...in the US, they have permitted many a grossly negligent doctor to go on to kill others...or prevent an honest doctor clearing his name because the hospital/insurance company wants things hushed up

    Wessely's crap is going to have serious consequence. When you demonize an innocent group, inevitably lives are lost.
  8. max

    max *****

    Messages:
    192
    Likes:
    34
    My opinion is that SilverB, as per usual, is absolutely correct. We are dealing with something that is not a 25+ year misunderstanding by the shrinks, neither is it a mistake/error from successive governments - I am not aware of ANY repeatable scientific evidence supplied by the Wessely or any of his gang, and yet, somehow, the Wessely concept has become the baseline of evidence that true science has to disprove - how has Wessely gained this stronghold - it is, and will be, considered a crime against humanity.

    I have done some soul searching as I became somewhat concerned that I was now an "ME activist" as I have corresponded with the MRC at length concerning 'the file' using the FOI - but I am not an activist - far from it.

    Personally, I wish no physical harm what-so-ever toward the Wessely - I want him to be fit and healthy so when the time comes, some dude in a wig will speak on behalf of 17million people, and locate Mr Wessely somewhere secure where he can do no harm, this is just my opinion and I am entitled to it. I'm just having a conversation amongst a group of people who share a common interest, namely the search for a truth which many firmly believe, is being witheld more than likely just for the accumulation of worthless 's,$'s or 's. I dont give a damn if plausible deniability reigns left, right and centre, I just want this to be over.

    SilverB is right to draw comparrisons the way he does - he is aware of the depths to which humanity can, and frequently does, sink - lets face it, we have been left to sink without trace, we are the Titanic of diseases, the only difference being they didn't give out any lifeboats at all.

    The vast majority of humans still believe all they are told, they call it history, if its history then its true - it must be.
  9. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,309
    Likes:
    840
    UK
    I am not up to reading all the foregoing but wll add the damage done by him (and the psychos) has set real recognition and any attempt to discover the "underlying causes" back by decades. What is happening now is described in another place as a war. Past grudges intentionally brought forward to discredit all ME sufferers - disgraceful - for reasons already mentioned - first being "do no harm" in the medical H oath. I can well understand anger having been a dupe for an "all in your mind" diagnosis from a psychiatrist once.

    We've given up reading any of the papers/Docs/journalists involved - bad for our own health.
  10. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,039
    Likes:
    10,831
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    Hi, I have suggested before that we should get the facts on any death threats. The contact page for the London Met is:

    https://secure.met.police.uk/enquiries/index.php

    I suggest that UK citizens express their concern and ask for an official press release on this issue. I am prepared to send the request myself, but it would be nice if I knew this would be welcomed by UK PWMEs, I don't want to create problems for anyone.

    Bye
    Alex
  11. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,617
    Likes:
    5,266
  12. Angela Kennedy

    Angela Kennedy *****

    Messages:
    1,026
    Likes:
    152
    Essex, UK
    In principle yes i'd say we should have full disclosure on any convictions for death threats, 'harassment' etc. for incidents relayed by certain doctors.

    And I would also want to see if it was ever officially declared by the police the comparison with Animal Rights extremists and what was the context.

    If it is possible to access these, say, under FOI.

    My problem would be with a press release. Police- even if no crime has been committed, are very much into telling everyone to behave themselves nowadays. What we do not want is an opinion by a policeman in displinary parenting mode in a press release, frankly!
  13. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,039
    Likes:
    10,831
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    Hi Angela, then maybe a FOI request is the way to go. In that case it has to be from a UK citizen I think. Bye, Alex
  14. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,309
    Likes:
    840
    UK

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page