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TIRED,TIRED,TIRED

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,820
@Gingergrrl

I guess with some drugs there may be a period of adaption when you first start taking them, and you get temporary side effects, but after some days or weeks these disappear. You get these temporary start up side effects with SSRI antidepressants for example.

Temporary start up side effects from antivirals could be something along the lines you mention, where the antiviral stops the full replication cycle but the virus is still trying to partially replicate, leading to some symptoms.

Or could be any of a number of things, like for example the liver slowly getting into gear in terms of handling and processing this new chemical (the antiviral) that you are taking. There's probably very little research on why actually causes these start up side effects from various drugs.
 
Messages
15,786
The major feature of a Herxheimer reaction for me during antibiotics for Lyme has been fever. I've never had fevers with ME, and so far it keeps on happening until each course of antibiotics is nearly done - which would seem to indicate that the doctor is timing the duration of the antibiotics very skillfully.

My mother's also getting fevers now that she's started antibiotics for Lyme as well, after testing positive. Every symptom list I've seen of a Herxheimer reaction lists fevers first, and I'd be pretty cautious of labeling any reaction as a Herxheimer reaction if there isn't a fever.

In addition to the fever and hypotension from a standard Herxheimer reaction, some antibiotics cause different side effects for me. Both the doxycyline and the clarithromycin seem to wipe me out and make me sleep/doze a lot, but doxycycline also gives me severe motion sickness, to the extent that I can't watch TV or use my laptop for a couple hours after taking it. And on two other antibiotics, I "only" had the fevers and hypotension, without any of the fun little extras.

Hence I think it's very important to understand what's a Herxheimer reaction, what's a side-effect, and what's an adverse reaction. If a drug is damaging your liver, it's a very bad idea to dismiss it as "herxing", especially if it's not even an antibiotic. The exact symptoms do matter very much, and it's not acceptable to lump all negative symptoms together and call them a Herxheimer reaction.
 

knackers323

Senior Member
Messages
1,625
No but I was told it would take a year or longer. So after the year I got retested and my levels were higher than the first time.

Did they have an explanation for this?
Sounds like you have a virus that famvir doesn't work on.?
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
@Hip and @Valentijn I totally agree with you and never use the word Herx for viral stuff. I did wonder though when I first started Famvir and had facial pain and rib pain, if these were areas where the EBV virus could be hiding out and the anti-viral was now trying to stop them from replicating so I felt the pain?
 

JAM

Jill
Messages
421
The major feature of a Herxheimer reaction for me during antibiotics for Lyme has been fever. I've never had fevers with ME, and so far it keeps on happening until each course of antibiotics is nearly done - which would seem to indicate that the doctor is timing the duration of the antibiotics very skillfully.

My mother's also getting fevers now that she's started antibiotics for Lyme as well, after testing positive. Every symptom list I've seen of a Herxheimer reaction lists fevers first, and I'd be pretty cautious of labeling any reaction as a Herxheimer reaction if there isn't a fever.

In addition to the fever and hypotension from a standard Herxheimer reaction, some antibiotics cause different side effects for me. Both the doxycyline and the clarithromycin seem to wipe me out and make me sleep/doze a lot, but doxycycline also gives me severe motion sickness, to the extent that I can't watch TV or use my laptop for a couple hours after taking it. And on two other antibiotics, I "only" had the fevers and hypotension, without any of the fun little extras.

Hence I think it's very important to understand what's a Herxheimer reaction, what's a side-effect, and what's an adverse reaction. If a drug is damaging your liver, it's a very bad idea to dismiss it as "herxing", especially if it's not even an antibiotic. The exact symptoms do matter very much, and it's not acceptable to lump all negative symptoms together and call them a Herxheimer reaction.

My reaction to the OLE has been very similar. I hadn't had a fever in two decades until I started taking the OLE. Since I started the OLE in May I become symptomatic (digestive symptoms, or fatigue etc., and fever every time.) when I up my dose, then I level off and feel good until I decide to up the dose again. They are not side effects and OLE has been tested and found not to be toxic to the liver. According to the viral research I have done the term "Herhiemer reaction" is the proper term for what is occurring.