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Tips on how to best survive long term abx therapy

Discussion in 'Antivirals, Antibiotics and Immune Modulators' started by sianrecovery, Jun 14, 2012.

  1. sianrecovery

    sianrecovery Senior Member

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    OK guys - there's a wealth of info in your experience - hit me with your suggestions for how to minimise the 'side' effects of long term abx therapy. I was on clindamycin and metrodanizole (cuse spelling) for dental infections for most of last year, and am for now been on doxy for three months in an anti-protazoal treatment.I am likely to remain on abx for sometime. Am also about to add plaquenil in. This is via a doc in AZ. I take VSL3 and sacc boulardi daily away from the abx, and am also using samento, silver, and serrpetase in order to get through the biofilm challenge.

    I read in another thread recently someone recommending to have a week off every six weeks in order to give the system a chance to reset.

    Am hoping to hear other people's experience, good and bad, of longterm abx and any handy hints on how best to survive it .

    Many thanks


    Sian
     
  2. liquid sky

    liquid sky Senior Member

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    Only antibiotic I can take long term is Doxycycline. All others cause IRIS.
     
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  3. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Nilstat or nystatin can help keep fungal/candida from outnumbering gut bacteria, also should use a good probiotic. Sacchromyce is another supp that can also help with possible gut abnormalities from abx use..
     
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  4. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    I've never been able to survive long term AB treatment. The best I have done is that recently I found that taking Imunovir and Valtrex with Doxycycline resulted in my first period of tolerating the tx and even feeling a little better after. Sadly that didn't turn out to work long term with it tried a longer dose (i.e. over 1 week). It does help with short doses.

    The symptoms I get from AB's have always been attributed to a herx reaction but there is no evidence to support this. I suspect that it may have been IRIS but once again I have no evidence. We simply don't know why patients can have such a severe reaction. My stomach problems didn't start until I had AB tx and no amount of probiotics and other treatments has returned my stomach back to how it was. The MAF878 has done the best so far but I may need to keep taking it.

    When I took the MAF878 I had a severe reaction and took Benadryl and Daosin. Maybe that could have worked better for me with the AB reactions? Could it be that for some of us treating with AB's causes an immune response and that is why the Immunovir helps?

    It does seem to be a very individual thing. Something I noted when I looked on the forums for CFS taking AB regimes was that the supplements that they were taking to make the reactions more tolerable were the types of things that many CFS were already taking. I was disappointed as I'd already tried these things on a every day basis to see what they did to my normal ME symptoms (without the added hell of the AB reaction).

    The whole area of how to control the "herx" or "iris" or whatever the severe reactions that we have is lacking. It would help to know exactly what we are facing.

    Wishing you all the best and I hope that the reaction you have is tolerable or you find things that do help .
     
    sianrecovery likes this.
  5. Ai-Yai

    Ai-Yai Mad Genius

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    Mom
    Long term abx treatment isn't used for dental infections. Dental infections treatment inculdes surgical debridement, mechanical cleanig and only 7-14 days of abx. Long term use of abx will results only to acuired resistance in oral strains ... and if surgical debridement and mechanical cleanig were not done in appropriate manner the infection will persist and probably will be much less response-able to any futher antibacterial therapy next 12-18 monthes app.

    Pretty idiotic combo considering dental infection
    This is also for dental infection? o_O
    Sure, your oral inhabitants will be very thankfull for giving them a selection window after such long time of hard adapting. :thumbsup:
    Best option in "such" situation -to find normal adequate dentist who really knows how manage and treat such condtions.
    Y r wellcome.

    p.s.
    And after such long, "ground" and "right" abx cources when ones gets sinus or throat infection he will usually asks: "Guys have sinus\thoat infection.... need help ... antibiotics don't work... probably got some damn nasty virus... Aha! ... What is Lipkin says about that?" :rofl:
     
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  6. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    Hi Sian,
    if you survived clindy your current regime should be almost like a walk in the park... I found that very disrupting on the gut and wasn't able to tolerate.

    I never took abx for longer than 3-4 weeks in a row. My "friends" Borrelia and CPn tend to switch to a different form pretty quickly once they sense they've come under attack. The other evading strategy is that they'll move to areas of the body (e.g. joints, synovial fluid) where abx concentration and immune presence is so low it can't harm them.
    So the idea was to have breaks of a couple of weeks in between to give Borrelia and CPn a window to come out from hiding and then hit them again and again. So breaks in between and rotating abx mix can help with that to an extent.
    But I'm not sure the concept applies or is helpful at all against your protozoa.

    I also took multiple daily doses of VSL, s boulardii, L. rhamnosus, kefir. personally I don't think you can ever overdose with those when on abx. I also took Phoschol with each abx dose, it's quite protective of the stomach lining. Sauerkraut (unpasteurised) is a recent discovery and I'm finding it very very good for digestion.


    How long are you going to be on that mix? Are you going to take any Ivermectin?

    All the best

    PS: as regards Serra, pls check what the long-term safe dosage is. It can cause side effects if dosage is too high.
     
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  7. sianrecovery

    sianrecovery Senior Member

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    Already loads of great info - thanks guys. Ai Yai - yes, that dentist was an utter numpty, and caused me a lot of suffering. Since then, I have had a variety of dental consults and diagnosis has varied from taking them all out and debriding the bone, another saying saying lets redrill, redo the bridge, operate on that bit etc etc - after a year and half of expensive work, I am leaning toward conservative managment. The doc in the US treating me for protomyxzoa said recalcitrant dental infections were a typical presentation, and the more work you had, the more you tended to need because of vasular insufficiency (sludegy biofilm blood) and the actual protozoan themselves.
    Xrunner - interesting you should say that re joints - I had a severe inflamatory response in my shoulder joint a couple of weeks ago, hurt like hell, immobilsed it, and they were calling it adhesive capsulitis - but its receded too fast. There is an underlying biomechanical problem, but I think you've hit on the mechanism for that flare. Are you still on samento and banderol? Have you noticed any changes? Ivermectin is planned for the Autumn. Have you looked at Eve Sapi's stuff on youtube? She seems like a good resource.
    UKMMRV - its exactly your reponse to abx I fear - that there is a tipping point from which there's no easy return from. On the other hand, living with the pathogens isnt exactly doing me any favours either.
    Heapsreal - taking nystain - hard on the liver tho I think. I notice Sapi says it also has some anti-spriochete activity with borrelia.
    And I realise I am showing my ignorance - but that's why I'm asking - what is IRIS?

    thanks for sharing the journey!
     
  8. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    nystatin isnt hard on the liver as its not absorbed, maybe getting mixed up with other antifungals like diflucan and nizoral which work systemically, nystatin just works in the gut and not absorbed into the blood.

    IRIS is immune reconstitution inflammatory syndrome, basically the infectious load which has been supressing the immune system as been eased by treatments that lower this infectious load, then the immune system 'turns' on and also starts fighting infections, inflammatory immune cytokines which are produced by the immune system can make someone feel really sick. Similar to a die off effect. Why people go slow with treatments and or alternate dosing as well.

    hope this helps,
    cheers!!!
     
  9. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    Sian,
    I've been off Samento and Banderol for a few weeks now. I didn't notice anything particular.
    Yes I saw that video and read a summary of the study Sapi did on abx, herbals and biofilm. That's why I tried them.
    The study was an in-vitro one though, so results may differ when translated in-vivo. But helpful anyhow.
     
  10. sianrecovery

    sianrecovery Senior Member

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    Thanks Heapsreal. I guess IRIS might help explain why I developed adhesive capsulitis a few days into plaquenil dosing. Gave me a healthy respect for the power of inflamatory response, and counteracted my 'I'll just push through the symptoms because I'm rock hard" thinking - especially as there is no quick way out of pain.
    Xrunner - one of the Lyme group in AZ I mail with is going to see Sapi - she's not a medical doc, but a researcher, but she does see some people - he was also diagnoses with protomyxzoa - if he comes back with anything interesting, will let you know xxxx
     
  11. GcMAF Australia

    GcMAF Australia Senior Member

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    Hi
    i have information suggesting that these Maf yogurts may vary in strength.
    The colostrums can vary in strength and also people's systems also obviously vary.
    Thes yogurts could be really potent.
    there are indications that doses as low as 15 ml could be sufficient.
    The motto is -
    Start slow and start low.
    If there are problems it can take up to about one month without the MAF to settle down again.
    BEST WISHES
     
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