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Timing of Methylation Supplements & Interaction with Other Supplements

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Journeyman, Apr 25, 2016.

  1. Journeyman

    Journeyman Senior Member

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    Hi Folks,

    I've always been of the understanding that methylation supplements should be the 1st medications taken at least 30 mins before Potassium/Vit C etc., however this morning as I procrastinated as to whether taking methylation supps is more important now that I've just come down with a bad head cold or flu I found the 'Preventing Methylfolate Side Affects' link by Dr Lynch of MTHFR.net posted 26/11/14

    http://mthfr.net/preventing-methylfolate-side-effects/2014/11/26/

    Now it seems to advocate taking the methylation supplements only some time AFTER taking all the electrolytes (potassium/calcium etc.) I certainly felt a bit better post intake than normal by doing it 1.5 hours after breakfast (a stew)

    Can anyone confirm that this is the optimal method of taking methylation supps?

    If anyone can comment on the potential benefits of taking or not taking methylation supps in a time of illness that too would be handy. So far I understand its better to have higher Glutathione levels when sick thus advocating the use of methylation supplements.

    PS - For those wondering why I'm not taking them everyday I've been increasing my knowledge of health sciences through university study the last 9 months and its causing me to question the high intakes of methylation supplements on a daily basis. Particularly, for example, after learning that B12 is stored in the liver for _YEARS_....

    I've been taking my 1mg Methyl B12 with 500mcg Methylfolate and various others (TMG, Benfotiamine, P5P) just once a week for about the last 3 months and have found lowered anxiety levels and not much perceptible difference in energy levels... am now stepping back up my dosage to see if negative effects return... does seem so thus far and have caught my first head cold in 9 months :/ ...

    Regards
    Journeyman
     
  2. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    I am curious... why calcium? Is there a specific reason?
    I don't seem to have ever heard of any particular implications of Ca in the methylation cycle.

    I don't think there's a general rule for this. For me it was all about starting super low and slow and letting the body gain tolerance to those supplements. I started with folic acid which was the lowest thing in my labs, then added B12 because my homocysteine was through the roof, and finally the other Bs.

    Later I also added minerals, once again super low&slow because my bowel had no sympathy for any mineral supplement at the time...

    Eh... but that doesn't fix methylation or transport issues... People who seem to need high doses of B12 every day are likely to have some transport issues, maybe due to genetics or elevated Hg etc...

    It's good to look at the science but one has to question that as well :) Especially because it deals with generic aspects of metabolism but individuals have lots more variables going on...
     
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  3. garyfritz

    garyfritz Senior Member

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    Exactly, @PeterPositive. The university courses deal with typical cases and normal physiology. We are here precisely because we aren't typical or normal.
     
  4. u&iraok

    u&iraok Senior Member

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    U.S.
    Personally I wouldn't take them during flu because your body has to concentrate on making you well. The extra load of toxins from methylation wouldn't be helpful. You will have to get rid of the flu toxins as well and that would be too much of a burden. Better to take them before you get sick to get higher glutathione levels to possibly prevent flu the next time.
     
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  5. Journeyman

    Journeyman Senior Member

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    Thanks for reminding me about that. You're absolutely correct re: the university education system working purely off the western medicine model where every persons body allegedly works the same way. I guess a better question would be:
    Is my combination of SNP's putting me a in position drastically different to the 'ideally functioning' body type. It appears I'm heterozygous for the vast majority of the key markers involved in the methylation cycle such as COMT V158M, COMT H62H, MTHFR C677T, MTHFR A1298C, MTHFR 03 P39P, MTR A2756G
    BHMT-8
    I've checked DHFR which should be a guide as to how my body takes up folate from vegetables and I think I was normal or heterozygous at worst. I also note that with my C677T I have about 60% of the folate generating capacity from my dietary intake. So from my understanding that its folate and B12 that basically make up your methylation function I'm thinking that with my high vegetable intake each day (more than would make up for a 40% deficit compared to a 'normal' gene for C677T, and the fact that 2+ years of 1mg/day MeB12 supplementation would have given me huge stores of B12 in the liver, I have limited need for further supplements even taking into account my SNP's. Does this make sense ? Can anyone suggest why this might not be the case (other SNP's requiring supps that only have a short half life for example)

    I'm aware that BHMT-8 is an important one and I forget why, so my next query is how often I need to supplement Benfotiamine to keep BHMT8 levels in a 'normal' range.... Perhaps my routine should be MEB12 and MEFol once a week and then BHMT8, CO-Q10, Alpha Lipoic Acid daily..

    I've been able to beat this bacterial infection without antibiotics and simultaneous to keeping up the methylation intake. Though I should point out that I've probably already done a lot of metabolic 'healing' some 1-2 years ago when I really got into methylation protocols...

    Regards
     
  6. Journeyman

    Journeyman Senior Member

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    PS - I take calcium simply because I avoid Dairy and thus need an alternative calcium source (nothing to do with methylation) However from what I understand having high calcium levels promotes high potassium levels as the two work synergistically per some of the multimineral theory put forward by Hoffer etc....

    Regards
    Journeyman
     
  7. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Sure.
    Well... dairy products are not that important for calcium, you can get plenty from dark leafy green veggies, legumes, fish such as sardines and salmon, tofu...
    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/calcium-full-story/#calcium-from-milk

    cheers
     
  8. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    I am not sure if high dose B12 generates bigger liver stores... I suspect we have a limited "B12 tank" :)
    In any case you're right... there's no need to keep gulping down B12 if one doesn't need it.Iit makes perfect sense to suspend the supplements and see how it goes.

    I was also pretty skeptical about megadosing B12 for long times. I've tried suspending it and noticed a slow return of symptoms (cognitive decline, energy loss, worsening of pain) in about 3 weeks which resolved very quickly by taking methyl-B12 again (10mg+).

    So in my case liver stores are not sufficient to keep up with the problem (probably because liver stores are not "aware" of the other issues down the line...)

    This I don't know. I am not very familiar with this pathway. I am sure other "veterans" in the forums will be able to reply.

    cheers
     
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