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Tilt Training,an easy answer to OI,anybody tried?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by goldberg, Dec 21, 2013.

  1. goldberg

    goldberg

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    I'm reading a lot of studies about the effectiveness of tilt training to help people with severe Orthostatic Ipotension,it is a very simple exercise:

    "The patient stand and leans with their upper back against a wall with their feet lanted 15 cm away from the wall,without moving.
    Session are performed in a safe environment and they are stopped if a syncope is eminent.
    The home program consists of twice a day regime for up to 30 minutes each session"

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9474671?dopt=Abstract
    https://lirias.kuleuven.be/bitstream/123456789/260839/1/Acta Cardiologica TiltTraining.pdf

    I would want to know,if anybody tried,is the position of the knees straight or bent?
    Emootje likes this.
  2. lnester7

    lnester7 Seven

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    I did for a while, my issue is having the time to do it, also is like with exercise, you have to kind of start all over sometimes when one gets sicker, and it might crash you. I have a blog on it if you want to see details.
  3. goldberg

    goldberg

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    Do you know if the knees are straight or bent?

    Yes,please I would want to read your blog,thank you.
  4. goldberg

    goldberg

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    [​IMG]
    Ok here's the right way to do it,
    I fear this exercise can crash people with ME but still my OI is so strong that I want at list to try....
    anybody else tried this for OI?
  5. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I think that would help those who have OI due to being bedridden and supine for too long, if ones OI is due to other causes, I personally think it probably wouldnt help.

    For myself, that would be very bad for me to be doing.. firstly I wouldnt manage to stand upright for very long at all (Im highly uncomfortable with standing with 1 min of standing)... secondly I know if Im putting strain on my body due to OI, that that can end up triggering a delayed ME malaise stuff for me. OI for myself can trigger off ME crash.

    For the reasons above.. I wouldnt suggest most ME people to try this. (my low blood volume and hence OI issues isnt due to laying but due to something else going wrong in my body).
    Valentijn likes this.
  6. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Do you know the reason for your OI?
  7. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Not sure the angle this puts you at but the TTT is not 100% upright--80% I think? So this could crash you like a TTT does.

    Sushi
  8. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    With me syncope is sudden. Imminent for me translates to being on the ground. I get no warning.
  9. lnester7

    lnester7 Seven

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    They started me with 4min (or 6 min cant remember) at 9:00am and 2pm for 10 days then increase 4 min every 10 days.

    You stand still (do not move) in a wall (not touching) with feet slightly separated as the picture says. The wall is only there if you feel faint you can lay against it as protection so you don't fall.

    For me in about minute 4 I would feel close to fainting, I mean horrible feeling then it would pass, and your body get used to this feeling.

    The theory is that your brain does not negotiate lack of oxygen but you can train it to go longer without so you don't pass out or feel horrible as quickly.
  10. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    I believe this kind of treatment is intended to help with OI which is primarily the result of blood pooling. I suspect most of us do not have this form. I don't think it would help with low blood volume-related OI.

    I have heard -- don't know if it's true -- that you can tell if you have blood pooling by trying compression garments. If they help, you probably have blood pooling. Of course you can have blood pooling and low blood volume or other causes of OI.
    ahimsa likes this.
  11. goldberg

    goldberg

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    Actually all the scientific articles I read state:
    "Patients had to stand with their feet
    15 cm away from the wall and lean with the upper back against the
    wall
    without moving."
    http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/content/29/12/1523.full.pdf

    SOC said:
    "I believe this kind of treatment is intended to help with OI which is primarily the result of blood pooling. I suspect most of us do not have this form. I don't think it would help with low blood volume-related OI."

    I found a trial about CFS patients who had an improvement doing the tilt training:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19912315

    I hope these informations are helpful.
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  12. lnester7

    lnester7 Seven

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    I guess it make sense for the most sick!! I am quite active so I guess that is why my instructions were more relax. I would start with the most conservative approach for the very sick, remember I did this under doctor supervision so he started me with high minutes, I don't imagine a bed ridden starting with 4 min standing!!!.
  13. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    I'm confident it will work for some people with a CFS diagnosis, especially if the group is Fukuda CFS rather than ICC ME. There are certainly people with ME/CFS (by any definition) who have blood pooling and can be helped by tilt training. It's certainly worth a try. I'm just saying that not all forms of OI, including some common in ME/CFS may not be helped by tilt training. Like everything else, what will work for some of us will not work for others.
  14. Allyson

    Allyson Senior Member

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    \
    not tried it but I think it would make me crash - it is counter intutitive in that it involves long standing and no muscle use
    recumbent pilates would be better IMO

    see more on why in this thread


    http://forum.notcrazy.net/index.php?topic=9571.0


    good luck. let us know how you get on

    Ally

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