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Thyroid Function...Labs May Lie

Discussion in 'Thyroid Dysfunction' started by xks201, Jul 1, 2012.

  1. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    Same here, though maybe I got benefit for a bit longer. It had a remarkable head clearing effect which unfortunately wasn't sustained. Also a remarkable energy increase for a while which I had attributed to D-ribose, but that too disappeared despite continuing the D-ribose.

    I tried increasing the boron dose but not only did this not help, it started to make me feel worse. Eventually I had to stop the extra boron though have continued with a trace mineral preparation containing 0.7 mg B.

    At first I thought the response was part of the refeeding syndrome which Freddd has been talking about recently but now I think this is less likely.

    It could be that in repleting boron I had just exposed some other limiting factor. I did try various other minerals, also increasing B2, but none of these helped. If the problem is just some other missing nutrient, it is hard to understand why the boron started to become a real problem - one would just expect it to do nothing.

    It felt much more like an active turning off - as if some feed-back inhibition had kicked in.

    I have been thinking about thyroid hormone a lot lately as my last blood tests show a definite slide into mild hypothyroidism. Maybe the boron was stimulating T4 for a while and what has kicked in is increased draining off down the rT3 pathway. Certainly my rT3 is elevated.

    Am about to try some slow-release T3. It will be interesting to see if it feels anything like the effect I once had with boron.
     
  2. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    It does, but it wears off too, and raisng the dose won't help.
     
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  3. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Did you try Mn, Mg, Fe, Ca? It is a cascade and hard to predict at what point our reserves will fail, right?
    Well, I wouldn't expect that considering it has the potential of accumulating and becoming toxic...[/QUOTE]
     
    pamojja likes this.
  4. cph13

    cph13 Senior Member

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    Thank you @Gondwanaland.....lightbulb moment here: Claims of decreased mental alertness in men women
    xo C
    @snowman I'm sure you read this....easy on the borax.....bath soaks
     
  5. MAF14

    MAF14 Senior Member

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    What dose did you begin with that helped with the mental clarity?
     
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  6. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I started with 2mg, then after 2 months the parathyroid pain began and I kept lowering the dose, but could not tolerate it anymore. Retried at a very low dose, several months and one year later with the same pain. Never figured out what is missing.
     
  7. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    Did anything else help?
     
  8. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    Mn yes (didn't help, maybe made me worse), no to the other three. I already take a lot of Mg and RBC Mg is at top of normal range. Increasing Mg in the past has been a bit of a problem.

    I have elevated ferritin (yes I know this can just mean inflammation) and at times other iron studies suggest possible iron overload. So Fe supplements are something I scrupulously avoid.

    Ca is a bit excitatory for me so again Ca supplementation is something I avoid. Blood ionised Ca is mid-range.

    Can you give me some more info on this? I was under the impression that B is water soluble and any excess is removed via kidneys.
     
  9. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    It always is... unless one is dying I guess. I find it very hard to assess Ca deficiency/excess. I had a very peculiar experience with Ca supplementation last December. 2-3 days of supplementation just cleared my brainfog for almost 2 months uninterrupted - but it wasn't repeatable. The smell of my urine during supllementation was awful, like Ca displaced something from receptors (Lead?)
    I am sorry, this is an empiric observation... My kidneys probably have some extent of damage mainly due to past undiagnosed hyperinsulinemia for several years...
     
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  10. snowman

    snowman

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    @Gondwanaland , I don't know much about oxalates or kidney dangers, but if ginger is a problem, these are some others that also reduce inflammation somewhat similarly to boron - cinnamon, thiamine (high dose up to 2500 RDA), inosine, niacinamide, quercetin, riboflavin, vitex, aloe, mustard seed, fenugreek.

    Oh wouldn't it be nice if there were cheap home vitamin-mineral level tests you could do daily with a finger prick like the glucose monitors!

    The mention of borax @cph13 reminded me of Ted's Borax Remedy on Earthclinic. I think he recommends it as a short term higher dose antifungal. However, they don't get as scientific as here with journal references and detailed biochemical explanations, and leave you to research a lot on your own, and their medical problems are far more heterogeneous.

    I do vaguely recall that post a while back about boron and B2, but was there something that said they 2 together helped form something? Maybe if already have enough of that, then boron doesn't deplete B2 as much? Maybe if don't have enough of that, then need far more B2 than @alicec used, however much that was?

    Musings on boron and parathyroid problems:
    If boron causes more minerals to be deposited in the bone, including calcium, then perhaps it could build bone at a higher rate than the intake and retention of Ca can supply, and thus the parathyroids went wild trying to keep enough Ca in the blood when it was being deposited in bone so fast? If parathyroids preserve serum Ca level by taking it from bones while boron is depositing it into the bones, maybe that can cause a constant fruitless overworking of the parathyroids to the point of pain. Would it make a difference if calcium intake was increased? Does Vitamin K in high doses like 45mg of MK-4 per day - I think @Asklipia used this amount - to build bone also cause painful parathyroids or does it keep them from getting painful? I seem to remember someone in one of these threads had trouble supplementing calcium until they started taking Vitamin K2. Also, what is the role in all of this of calcitonin, which is likely lower than normal in hypothyroid patients who are not taking NDT.
     
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  11. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    I take T3 only rx, so converting is not an issue. I also use 200mcg selenium daily, and eat seed/nut mix which includes Brazil nuts. I no longer seem to need boron, always self-test negative for it.
     
  12. MAF14

    MAF14 Senior Member

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    Cytomel or generic? What dose?
     
  13. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Compounded T3 only. I'm currently taking 100mcg. Rudy Dragone talks in his 2014 vid about how needs change according to thyroid receptors, I think around 40" mark.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/TheRLCLabs
     
  14. MAF14

    MAF14 Senior Member

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    Thank you for the link! I actually started watching that once and couldnt ever find it again.

    Semi random question... When you take T3 do you "feel" it kick in or notice an actual increase in body temp or HR? Or even feel hyper if you overlap doses too much?
     
  15. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    No, I never feel anything particular when I take thyroid. Even when I was not using slow release, I didn't have an immediate response.
     
  16. HelloHere

    HelloHere P.o.t.s, brugada,and now high Tsh

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    This is amazing compliments from me to know forums like this can exist and you guys feel free and give advices ...more than experiences...
    Well I believe I do have P.O.T.S since a year and half (dizy etc..) I also have a mild brugada ,what is long qt but I believe that does happen from time to time . I dunno...well I m newly diagnosed with some TSH....15..... So I m glad being able to may e have some feedback . I m very sensitive to ...a lot of things. Been going gluten free (Chronic Const.), I gave up meats, uppered my amount of fruits,veggies, as proteins I do have fish, sometimes nuts now.
    I had hernia repairs and some months after these surgeries I found myself diagnosed with copd stage 2. Here goes the troubles, I got then a pneumonia shot, palpitations, breathing things,metoprolol, palpitations,FULL VERTIGO
    .. bad EKG, 4 days in hospital, cardiac stress test ,heart echo, well with my help ....big help.from me ,p.o.t.syndrome came up.as the most clear diagnosis ,Drs agreed...thanks internet,dysautonomia potsssgurl,etc..so I had to leave with an official vertigo diagnosis the hospital. Since then, it s quite of a mess concerning a chronic pain on my upper left side still( nothing in the echo), my so called chronic pain from hernia repair makes me rely 75% more on my left side...(I believe I 'll be anyway a recurrent hernia patient one of these days unfortunately.) (It does somewhat bulge(highly nauseated if constipated..)so ....
    I did spend some time in the woods as a pre teen and even earlier( I got bit by ticks more than once.

    Therefore.my question as a p.o.t.s "patient" : and for those who knows a lil about this brugada even mild (lidocaine not a good deal, steroids ink, made me ...angry for a plantar fasciitis) I need then to ask if I can get a ACTH to check on my cortisol levels?? (My TSH s 15 ("normal" T3+T4) I have some doubts about k owing that much about thyroid I RELY ON YOU to TEACH ME MORE about these hormones such as norepinephrine that If I ain t misunderstanding IS the one produced in the adrenal glands AND that is MAYBE being quite overworked as norepinephrine is needed for the heart to make this blood (O.I) get to the brain...i suspect it s not as simple as thyroid pb and as my p.o.t.s pbbly haven't been taken care of when referred to an endocrinologist, they d just give me that small dosage of synthroid and that s it. I do not take anything for my p.o.t.s as any meds mess me up... looks like synthroids pbbly will. I appreciate any feedback when you can .
     

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