Thoughts on Metanx. High L-Methylfolate for Neuropathy.

[Lou]

Even if all that was true (which it's not), how is dumping those toxins back into your bloodstream and then sweating them onto your skin better than leaving them sealed off in their fat catacombs?


It's probably not if sweat is allowed to sit there and be reabsorped by the skin. However most people are smart enough to take along a couple of dry towels and stay dried off. So to be specific, toxins on towels better than toxins inside body.

 

[Freddd]

so... B12 is better than tetanus anti-toxin?

Come on Fredd... sometimes, you should read the things you write before you post them.

Science has advanced considerably since the 1950's and 60's. Your information is way out of date.

Hi Malachy,

Come on Malachy, you should understand what you read and keep it in context. Also, I don't post 100% of everything in each post as each post would have to be 100 pages long and far exceeding the 15,000 character limit of each post.

Come on Fredd... sometimes, you should read the things you write before you post them
Science has advanced considerably since the 1950's and 60's. Your information is way out of date

This is totally irrelevant, and in fact total nonsense in this context, and has absolutely nothing to do with what I said in any way. They certainly DID NOT STUDY THE EFFECTS OF MeCbl ON ANYTHING IN THE 1950S AND 1960S. If they had done the studies on the real vitamins at that time we probably wouldn't be having this discusssion. I was giving examples of what toxins have been shown to be detoxed in some way or another by MeCbl. The full ALERT is that MeCbl may cause occult tetanus when tetanus occurs if MeCbl is being taken by injection, maybe sublingually in sufficient quantity, becasue it appears to counteract the neurotoxic effect of tetanus which is the basis on which it is normally diagnosed. It's dangerous not to be aware of that possibility. That is based on very thin information as how many people get tetanus these days in the USA or UK?. The vaccine works very well. The reversal of Botox has been repeatedly demonstrated. Botox is also a neurotoxin of the clostridium family, like tetanus. Don't you even find it interesting that such cautions need to be made? Further MeCbl injections are KNOWN and validated in studies and usage to cure birds from avian botulism effects with a single injection of 5mg.


so... B12 is better than tetanus anti-toxin?

I don't know. It has never been studied to my knowledge. I do know if I ever had a suspected case of Tetanus in myself or a loved one I would take or have my friend or child take all the MeCbl possible on the way to the hosiptal.


I don't put much stock in "detox" effects as most of them at least, are demonstably low potassium, low l-methylfolate symptoms, ATP startup, methyltrap and such occurances all of which can be demonstrably corrected rapidly if the clues are read correctly.

 

[Freddd]

Next time you're dying of lockjaw Fredd, take some B12, and if you survive, come back and post the results on here.

Hi Mal achy,

I'm not stupid. I get my tetanus vaccinations quite regularly and don't ignore puncture wounds and allow them to become infected. So you don't get vaccinations and expect to have to treat Tetanus, nicknamed "lockjaw" because of the tetany caused by the neurotoxin, with anti-toxin? Tetanus, is an anorobic bacteria and is treated with antibiotics, if a person survives long enough. If you ever have to play that survival game with Tetanus maybe you will recognize it and get to the hospital quickly enough. Or maybe you will be 5 days out in a wlidnerness area with no satellite phone and need to survive however you can if you are not vaccinated. Whatever saves you will have to be pure luck if you lack knowledge, planning and preparation.

 

[Freddd]

Did you even read the research you posted? Or did you just fancy the catchy headline. There's nothing in there that proves that benfotiamine isn't effective for peripheral neuropathy. All it says is that it doesn't increase thiamine levels in the brain (or CNS), as opposed to some other forms of thiamine.

Hi Adreno,

I don't know about Benfotiamin personally. The claims I read for it applied to a very specific set of persons, those with diabetic neuropathy which has different causes from b12/folate deficiency caused neuropathies. I tried it of course. I'm not diabetic and had no different results from regular thiamin. I was hoping that for me it would be a "most limiting factor" after the other dozen or so I did find were eliminated. Now that I have solved paradoxical folate deficiency adequately I thonk maybe it is time for me to try another trial of it. The one thing I am sure of is as the Dealdlock Quartet items are balanced, the other vitamins and minerals often work much better.

 

[dbkita]

Stored in fat doesn't mean trapped in fat. The toxins simply leech out like a time-released supplement. It is known as a two compartment model for clearance in pharmacokinetics.

 

[adreno]

Hi Adreno,

I don't know about Benfotiamin personally. The claims I read for it applied to a very specific set of persons, those with diabetic neuropathy which has different causes from b12/folate deficiency caused neuropathies. I tried it of course. I'm not diabetic and had no different results from regular thiamin. I was hoping that for me it would be a "most limiting factor" after the other dozen or so I did find were eliminated. Now that I have solved paradoxical folate deficiency adequately I thonk maybe it is time for me to try another trial of it. The one thing I am sure of is as the Dealdlock Quartet items are balanced, the other vitamins and minerals often work much better.

I don't know about benfotiamine either, and that wasn't my point. My point was that the study posted was irrelevant to the question of benfotiamine being effective for peripheral neuropathy or not. If you want to know something about a compound or treatment, you go to PubMed and research it, not just copy/paste some fancy headline without understanding the science.

A quick search on PubMed revealed a few older studies showing effectiveness of benfotiamine, and a few new ones that didn't. But benfotiamine was most often given as a single compound, and it is (in my opinion) doubtful that it can work in the absence of B12 and folate (as a minimum). So I guess the jury is still out. It was interesting to see that benfotiamine doesn't raise thiamine levels in the CNS. This means that we cannot rely on benfotiamine as our only source of thiamine.

 

[dbkita]

I don't know about benfotiamine either, and that wasn't my point. My point was that the study posted was irrelevant to the question of benfotiamine being effective for peripheral neuropathy or not. If you want to know something about a compound or treatment, you go to PubMed and research it, not just copy/paste some fancy headline without understanding the science.

A quick search on PubMed revealed a few older studies showing effectiveness of benfotiamine, and a few new ones that didn't. But benfotiamine was most often given as a single compound, and it is (in my opinion) doubtful that it can work in the absence of B12 and folate (as a minimum). So I guess the jury is still out. It was interesting to see that benfotiamine doesn't raise thiamine levels in the CNS. This means that we cannot rely on benfotiamine as our only source of thiamine.

Some doctors use a benfotiamine and allithiamine combo for just that reason. Personally I think thiamin is pretty sufficient. But I could see some who need elevated levels of TPP in the muscles who could benefit from benfotiamine.

 

[caledonia]

Even if all that was true (which it's not), how is dumping those toxins back into your bloodstream and then sweating them onto your skin better than leaving them sealed off in their fat catacombs?

What is your proof that the toxins (many of them proven to cause cancer) are sealed harmlessly in the fat? It wouldn't be the cancer epidemic where 1 in 3 people will get cancer in their lifetime?

If my body was always so full of "toxins".. then I'd be getting myself checked out for a faulty liver, then booking in for a kidney or lung transplant rather than wasting time in a sauna (although that sounds like a very good way to make new friends.)

Again, if you want to go through all of the pain and expense of having a liver/kidney/lung transplant, be my guest. I'd rather sit in a relaxing sauna.

 

[Freddd]

I don't know about benfotiamine either, and that wasn't my point. My point was that the study posted was irrelevant to the question of benfotiamine being effective for peripheral neuropathy or not. If you want to know something about a compound or treatment, you go to PubMed and research it, not just copy/paste some fancy headline without understanding the science.

A quick search on PubMed revealed a few older studies showing effectiveness of benfotiamine, and a few new ones that didn't. But benfotiamine was most often given as a single compound, and it is (in my opinion) doubtful that it can work in the absence of B12 and folate (as a minimum). So I guess the jury is still out. It was interesting to see that benfotiamine doesn't raise thiamine levels in the CNS. This means that we cannot rely on benfotiamine as our only source of thiamine.

I'm agreeing here, we have no idea how benfotiamin works in the presence of all the more limiting items being present, like MeCbl, AdoCbl, L-methylfolate and LCF and all ther pthers that have fallen into place as well..

 

[dbkita]

I don't know about benfotiamine either, and that wasn't my point. My point was that the study posted was irrelevant to the question of benfotiamine being effective for peripheral neuropathy or not. If you want to know something about a compound or treatment, you go to PubMed and research it, not just copy/paste some fancy headline without understanding the science.

A quick search on PubMed revealed a few older studies showing effectiveness of benfotiamine, and a few new ones that didn't. But benfotiamine was most often given as a single compound, and it is (in my opinion) doubtful that it can work in the absence of B12 and folate (as a minimum). So I guess the jury is still out. It was interesting to see that benfotiamine doesn't raise thiamine levels in the CNS. This means that we cannot rely on benfotiamine as our only source of thiamine.

TPP is pretty fundamental to the pyruvate decarboxylase complex. That being said for most people a normal amount of thiamin may be more than enough to saturate that aspect so that TPP formation is generally NOT the rate limiting step.
Still for a long time I personally could not tolerate B1 (made me tired) and I got at most a few mg in my diet. By going to a 25 mg then 50 mg dose of B1 (regular thiamin) it has a noticeable positive effect on energy. Going to 100 mg however, did not seem to make much difference from 50 mg in retrospect.

 

[triffid113]

I don't know about benfotiamine either, and that wasn't my point. My point was that the study posted was irrelevant to the question of benfotiamine being effective for peripheral neuropathy or not. If you want to know something about a compound or treatment, you go to PubMed and research it, not just copy/paste some fancy headline without understanding the science.

A quick search on PubMed revealed a few older studies showing effectiveness of benfotiamine, and a few new ones that didn't. But benfotiamine was most often given as a single compound, and it is (in my opinion) doubtful that it can work in the absence of B12 and folate (as a minimum). So I guess the jury is still out. It was interesting to see that benfotiamine doesn't raise thiamine levels in the CNS. This means that we cannot rely on benfotiamine as our only source of thiamine.

Yes, I read that the brain needs thiamine, but the rest of the body is good with benfotiamine.

-Study Reader

 

[Lou]

FIR sauna not a good choice to help rid body toxins? Supplements for me/cfs mostly placebo effect?

My guess is most with this illness would think that is simple Malarkey.

 

[Lotus97]

After a few months of taking detox baths (aka "a poor man's sauna) my health got significantly worse. It was probably a combination of toxins released and PEM. I also lost 40 lbs around the same which most likely released more toxins. I also found out that taking very hot baths can cause herxing for people with Lyme which probably made things worse. Maybe taking 2 baths a day every day was a bit too much

 

[Freddd]

My hot tub broke. It needs a a lot of work, including a rebuild of the motor possibly. It was old when I moved in here and has a new heater and new cover and now the pump has crapped out. In the summer when I'm at the camping resort I spend a lot of time in the hot tub. I tend to simmer for a while, take a swim and simmer some more. It has eased a lot of muscle pain for me but I can't honestly say it does, or ever did, much of anything else. I sit in the sauna too, and that does about the same without the sweat washing away. They are both very social events and there is often half a dozen people in either place and many interesting discussions take place, including occasional mentions of vitamins and all the rest of the worlds problems.