1. Patients launch a $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
In Brief: The Adrenal Glands and ME
The second in a new series of ‘In Brief’ articles, where Andrew Gladman provides a helpful insight into the science behind fairly common topics, exploring how they relate to ME/CFS. This time he discusses the adrenal glands and why they can be such a talking point ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Thoughts on Metanx. High L-Methylfolate for Neuropathy.

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Jorlev, Feb 12, 2013.

  1. Jorlev

    Jorlev

    Messages:
    66
    Likes:
    16
    Been looking at Metanx and the differences in the vitamin components as compared to recommendations found on this site. I don't have CF but do suffer from SFPN and am looking for a helpful protocol.

    As you can see below, the formula emphasizes the Methylfolate with 6 mg a day (in 2 tablets) and only 4mg of Methylcobalamin. This is way more than the 800mcg - 2 or 3mg recommended in most of the protocols here on Phoenix Rising. I have to assume 6mg a day of methylfolate would be safe as these levels are taken by patients prescribed this medical food product. As you can see below, 2 studies I've found indicated actual nerve regeneration with this product. (Although not sure if studies were funded by pharma co. or not)

    Seems like these dosages could be replicated with individual products instead of taking Metanx per se.

    Would appreciate an board thoughts on Metanx or in particular taking dosages of LMF as high as
    6mg a day which seems to be much more than anyone on this site is suggesting. Must say findings of actual nerve regeneration to be intriguing.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Metanx® tablets are indicated for the distinct nutritional requirements of patients with endothelial dysfunction21-23 who present with loss of protective sensation13 and neuropathic pain24-26associated with diabetic neuropathy.

    The usual adult dosage of Metanx® is one tablet twice daily and it is OK to take both tablets at the same time.
    L-methylfolate Calcium (as Metafolin®)3mg
    Pyridoxal 5′-phosphate35mg
    Methylcobalamin2mg
    http://www.metanx.com/helpful-resources/metanx-quick-facts/

    Study indicates Metanx increases intraepidermal nerve fiber density.
    http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/early/2012/05/14/db11-1524.short

    Another Study shows 73% of patients show increased ENFD, 82% of patients - reduced pareesthsia
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21769070
  2. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

    Messages:
    3,842
    Likes:
    738
    Concord, NH
    You might want to spell out what SFPN is, I think I have what you are talking about. Newer diagnosis for me, was part of a study and will do follow up blood tests in 2 weeks, results will take longer to come back. FYI

    GG
  3. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    2,661
    Likes:
    1,267
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    http://mthfr.net/comparison-of-homocysteine-support-products/2011/09/13/

    Bottom line, Metanx is ok to take, but you'll also need addtional methyl B12 to avoid methyl trapping. Oral B12 only absorbs like 2% through the stomach. Sublingual pill or liquid, or injection is best.

    SFPN = peripheral neuropathy

    The reason we don't take such high doses on here is because we're filled with toxins which have accumulated while we were sick - and some of us have been sick for decades. As you restart methylation, the toxins will come out and make you feel worse. So you need to dose it at a level you can control - it might be crumbs to start with for many of us.
  4. Malachy

    Malachy

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    7
    Could you please be more specific. What exactly are these "toxins" that you refer to? Do they have names and how do you know that they are "coming out"? When you sent your urine or blood to the pathology lab and asked for a toxicology screen, what were the results?
  5. Malachy

    Malachy

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    7
    Keep in mind also that Mentanx® is prescribed for diabetic peripheral neuropathy, so the dosages given in trials may not be relevant to your personal situation. Also, the formulation is propriety so the bioavailabilty, delivery, efficacy and drug interactions profile will be different compared to if you buy the active ingredients as individual supplements from other manufacturers.
  6. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    2,661
    Likes:
    1,267
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    The toxins are all the environmental toxins around us (or in us, if you have mercury fillings). We are taking them in all the time by breathing, eating, drinking or absorbng them through our skin. The body should either be able to deal with the toxin molecules by using up glutathione molecules to get rid of them, or it will store them in the body fat.

    People with ME/CFS have poor methylation and thus depletion of glutathione stores. So they have trouble dealing with toxins, and I think they mainly get stored in the body fat. The toxins are the various heavy metals, such as lead, mercury, arsenic, cadmium, etc. Other toxins can be any of the myriad of chemicals which we encounter over our lifetime - gasoline, solvents, plastics, flame retardants, etc. Nobody escapes this. They've found flame retardants in the fat of Eskimos living in the pristine wilderness in the Arctic.

    Getting tested for heavy metals and chelating them out is common. The metal test is a urine test. For whatever reason, most people don't test for chemicals stored in their fat. I'm not sure if it's because the testing is expensive, not readily available, or just pointless as we all have these accumulations.

    Here is a personal story. I have a history of exposure to industrial finishes, strippers and solvents. When I got sick with ME/CFS, I also developed multiple chemical sensitivities. This is a sign of glutathion depletion. I went to an environmental medicine specialist and he gave me a supplement with antioxidants and glutathione to start a gentle detox as I was very sick. For TWO YEARS I had this really pungent chemical odor coming out of my chest area and getting on my robe. It stank something horrible and I would wash it and wash it and the smell wouldn't fully come out. I kept thinking, gee this smells familiar, but I couldn't place it. Finally, I realized it was the same smell as the grain filler I had worked with 10 years before (naphtha is the solvent). I'm really glad to have gotten that out of my body. Who knows what else is in there.

    There is a similar case in one of Sherry Rogers books, I think "Tired or Toxic". There was a lady who was a hairdresser. Once Dr. Rogers got her detoxing, she had purple stains coming out and staining her pillow and bedsheets. They figured out it was from all the hair dye she had worked with over the years.

    There are many methods for detoxifying. The toxins will come out through your urine, feces or sweat.

    If you want to know more about this, I suggest reading Sherry Rogers books, "Tired or Toxic" and "Detoxify or Die." I guarantee it will be an eye opening experience.
  7. Malachy

    Malachy

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    7
    so.. testing is pointless because you just know that everyone is full of "toxins"?
  8. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,304
    Likes:
    685
    Salt Lake City
    Hi Malachy,

    Well.... Fortunately the effects of large enough amounts of MeCbl and l-methylfolate is that they do get rid of many of those pesky non-specific toxins and have enough left over to function as they need to. MeCbl is destroyed by the toxins it gets rid of. B12 protects against cyanide, Nitrous oxid, excess glutathione, botulism toxin, glutamate toxicity in the brains, nitro prusside, Tetanus neurotoxin, cascading neuron death, mercury (causes it to be excreted in the bile ending up in the feces) and no doubt others. There isn't a known better neuro anti-toxin. When starting MeCbl, AdoCbl, L-methylfolate and L-carnitine fumarate, most things called "detox" work out to be methyltrap, ATP startup, induced low potassium at starup and induced low folate despite taking some. These can all be demonstrated by each person by effectively titrating the needed items and vbringing things into balance. ATP start needs to be kept under control to begin with. Again, with hundreds of enzyme reactions all starting up some of them deal with enzymes i so many ways. If you test for 100 broken biological pathways and see abnormalities, you are seeing the resutls of broken methylation and broken ATP gneration which arfe unavoidable when all these things are not working.
  9. Malachy

    Malachy

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    7
    so... B12 is better than tetanus anti-toxin?

    Come on Fredd... sometimes, you should read the things you write before you post them.

    Science has advanced considerably since the 1950's and 60's. Your information is way out of date.
  10. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,012
    Likes:
    405
    United States
    I've heard people having good results with Benfotiamine. Sometimes it's good to have a comprehensive strategy rather than to focus on one thing.

    This is what Rich says about toxins being released during methylation
  11. Malachy

    Malachy

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    7
  12. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

    Messages:
    2,091
    Likes:
    1,114
    Tundras of Europa
    Did you even read the research you posted? Or did you just fancy the catchy headline. There's nothing in there that proves that benfotiamine isn't effective for peripheral neuropathy. All it says is that it doesn't increase thiamine levels in the brain (or CNS), as opposed to some other forms of thiamine.
  13. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,012
    Likes:
    405
    United States
  14. Lou

    Lou Senior Member

    Messages:
    443
    Likes:
    267
    southeast US



    May I ask if you've been diagnosed with ME/cfs? Your tone seems unnervingly familiar, very much like many of the doctors I encountered upon first becoming ill nearly twenty-eight years ago.

    May I also ask if a certain pronounciation of the name you use is a clue to your presence here?
  15. Malachy

    Malachy

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    7
    You are correct. They are not all placebo. Some of the positive reviews are probably from iherb staff.
  16. Malachy

    Malachy

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    7
    Next time you're dying of lockjaw Fredd, take some B12, and if you survive, come back and post the results on here.
  17. Malachy

    Malachy

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    7
    I just fancy the catchy headline. :)
  18. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    2,661
    Likes:
    1,267
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    No. Testing for things OTHER THAN metals is pointless because we all have them stored in our fat. Check out the National Human Adipose Tissue Survey. Plus such testing is more in the realm of the laboratory and not widely available to the consumer. However, if you want to go to the expense and trouble of finding a scientist to cut out a chunk of your fat and test it, be my guest.

    Testing for metals makes good sense. Some people have metals and some don't. Tests are available to the consumer - a simple urine test.

    If you want to chelate out metals, there are different substances for that work better for different metals, so it's good to know what you're dealing with.

    All fat stored toxins can be gotten out through sweating, so it doesn't really matter what you have. As the toxins are always coming in, it makes sense to have a regular sauna program. Therefore, there is no need to test what levels you have because there is always going to be more. Our world is polluted, and you can't avoid it.
    Lou likes this.
  19. Malachy

    Malachy

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    7
    Even if all that was true (which it's not), how is dumping those toxins back into your bloodstream and then sweating them onto your skin better than leaving them sealed off in their fat catacombs?






    If my body was always so full of "toxins".. then I'd be getting myself checked out for a faulty liver, then booking in for a kidney or lung transplant rather than wasting time in a sauna (although that sounds like a very good way to make new friends.)
  20. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,012
    Likes:
    405
    United States
    I agree with the second part which is why I believe methylation should be approached very cautiously.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page