1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
The ePatient Revolution
Ryan Prior shares his experience and his thoughts from attending the Stanford Medicine X Conference as he contemplates the rising of the ePatient Revolution ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

This really made me think

Discussion in 'Spirituality and ME/CFS' started by August59, Oct 9, 2012.

  1. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

    Messages:
    1,480
    Likes:
    405
    Upstate SC, USA
    Jarod, Tammy, Merry and 2 others like this.
  2. Vincent

    Vincent Senior Member

    Messages:
    116
    Likes:
    60
    Baltimore, Maryland USA
    It's incredibly narrow-minded and arrogant for mankind to think he has all the answers. We all live on a giant rock with a liquid magma core hurdling through space. 'Science' doesn't even know simple things like, how and why do peoples' arms and legs grow to the same size or how the pyramids were built. We don't even know why we are here, how we got here, and who or what came before us.
     
    Xandoff and SunnyInside like this.
  3. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,141
    Likes:
    1,712
    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    we do know how a lot of the pyramids were constructed, every day we get nearer to knowing exactly how they were built
    just a journey of discovery that takes time, we dont' have all the answers, that is true, we know this much " . ", because we live in a Universe so vast and ancient, it's beyond our ability to grasp.
    But it does mean that for God knows how long, our descendants will be able ot enjoy discovering new thngs, and that is *good* :)

    the problem is not with "faith" it's with:
    "organized religion" (which always, like political parties, always eventually becomes about dominance, lies, abuse, etc)
    and
    dogma (because folk want a security blanket, that if they do not "step on the cracks in the pavement" and "cross their finegrs for luck", ie, follow some mostly bizarre, pointless routines, they will be "safe")
    religion is a dead end, a blind alley in fact to divert you from the wonder of enlightenment.

    I've *SEEN* some of what that doctor talks about. And the OTHER side which about 25% of "near Death" folk experience but damn few wish to talk about for good reason.
    I don't need to go to church, I live in the grandest cathedral ever built, the universe we live in and the people within it!
    Another reaosn I get dismayed at the idiots who waste it, they are p*ssing in a wonderous gift, be it rational or spiritual, it's appalling to pollute and wreck it.

    Faith doesn't tell me how the Universe works, but does make me have absolute delight in learning about it bit by marvellous bit :)
     
    CJB, GhostGum and SunnyInside like this.
  4. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,477
    Likes:
    1,732
    East Coast, USA
  5. Tammy

    Tammy Senior Member

    Messages:
    354
    Likes:
    285
    New Mexico
    I love to read about people's near death experiences. I'm due for a new book to read so I'm going to get it! The last book I finished was Anita Morrjani's NDE titled "Dying to be Me". The messages from these experiences are very comforting to me...........they break down all the barriers and judgements.....the shoulds..........should nots of society.
     
    madietodd likes this.
  6. Vincent

    Vincent Senior Member

    Messages:
    116
    Likes:
    60
    Baltimore, Maryland USA
    That is what the 'establishment' wants you to know.

    http://www.pyramidcode.com/index.html

    You can also listen to that guys interview on coast to coast am on youtube. Once you listen to it you will begin to believe what the author himself is saying, and why it is rejected by the 'mainstream'.

    In case you were wondering I'm not religious at all. I'm not into ceremonies, head dresses, rituals, or costumes. I classify 'god' as the totality of everything known and unknown, along with the inherent goodness of people.
     
    Xandoff, madietodd and SunnyInside like this.
  7. Tammy

    Tammy Senior Member

    Messages:
    354
    Likes:
    285
    New Mexico
    speaking of the pyramids......does anyone remember the coral castle story? Mysterious story of how one man was able to move stones some weighing up to 30 tons to build his house. (i think it was his house)
     
  8. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

    Messages:
    144
    Likes:
    29
    I've been faithful for a long time, and my faith now is the strongest it can ever be. I know who my Lord is and I know that He is with me. In my three score ten (plus) my personal life experiences, near death experiences, encounters with God our Lord, I know that I am faithful and have extreme faith, because if I didn't I woudn't be able to handle the torment, suffering, and torture of this debiliating illness.
     
    rosie26 likes this.
  9. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

    Messages:
    144
    Likes:
    29
    Yes Silverblade, the aim of all science and religion is not to open the door to endless wisdom, but to put a limit on the endless error!
     
  10. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,141
    Likes:
    1,712
    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    Pyramids do not need (require) UFOs or whatever to build them
    they do take a great deal of time, effort and brains.
    Could the techniques have been learned/discovered form some previous civilization...yes, that's possible but not absolutely required.
    I takes time but we slowly learn the *rational* facts behind much of the mysteries the ancient world has left us.
    It's fun though to have mysteries, but not good to become dogmatic in thinking on them.
    The truth of the matter is *not known*, so no one has the right to be dogmatic!

    Could the Pyramids have been built with the help of aliens...likr it or not, I have to say yes, because we have no independant observers there at the time, which is the ONLY way to be 100% sure
    but we don't have any evidence of "aliens" being there or their absolutely required necessity to construct such, so such esoteric suggestions are not likely to be correct.

    Science is probability, which is about by using rational logic based on best evidence, and evidence can CHANGE over time as more is uncovered.

    So the odds of "aliens/magic/weird" being involved in the Pyramids is VERY small.
    But it cannot be ruled out unless we had say, a time machine to observe for ourselves.
    But that applies to everything, every damn thing that is not carefully observed and recorded throughout history could have an infinite number of possible explanations!
    Usally the explanations are simple, sometimes though it's more ocmplex, and a very few we as yet have no answers for

    that is the great dilemma and bugbear of Science: there is no certainty, which is a pain in the ass :p and made much worse by fraud, abuse etc (such as say, the lies for profit of many pharmaceutical trials)
    Science requires absolute confidence in its data amd that such data is constantly, constantly updated and re-checked in light of further information.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism
    now theres' a grand mystery, even though we've uncovered much of what it does , we still don't know the evolution of the item and background
    what thoughts/people/cuture/needs lead to it?
    who built it?
    for how long had such techniques and maths been refined?
    etc

    [​IMG]

    The ROmans moved 2000 ton stone blocks, you cannot do that with log rollers etc, sheer weight crushes them and likewise it would drive itself into the ground if you tried ot pull it
    ROmans didn't have UFOs, or magic so thus they must have had some perfectly good engineering skills/tools/tricks we don't know of
    Example: One I found fascinating when I was building 3D models of Roman seige engines I studied up on them
    somehow they managed to cure and use sinew ropes that were BETTER than the any of the ropes we have today for making "torsion springs" for ballistas etc (I am not saying they had "stronger" ropes, it's the torsion "springiness", elasticity etc that's unique to those ancient ropes)
    they must have came up with such techniques over centuries of trial and error.

    There are hill forts in the Scottish borders who's ramparts are vitrified, turned to glass.
    short of an atomic bomb nothing we know of can do that on that scale, they've tried for years in tests with keeping roaring log fires going etc but as yet, nothing has replicated that effect
    do ya think the Rpmans had nukes? :p
    no, it's more likely the builders had some trick of vitrifying the ramparts/walls, so they became one solid piece that shed rainwater,didn't erode as fast and was thus immensely strong for its time.
    Doesn't rule out bizarre stuff but merely you don't need "aliens/a-bombs in the Iron Age" etc to explain most things that are "odd".
    I may never live long enoough to see these mysteries explained, which would be a shame, but someone, sometime, probably will, even if it takes hundreds of years
     
    jack blogs likes this.
  11. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

    Messages:
    144
    Likes:
    29
  12. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,141
    Likes:
    1,712
    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    so they used limestone...why not?
    you can drag large stones quite easily, the South AMericans did, I don't know the cut off point, but beyond a certain tonnage and also density of stone, the sheer weight makes such untenable

    the Aztecs set would make smooth cobbled roads then cover then in mud
    this acts as a low friction surface, letting you pull 50+ ton blocks of stone quite easily up hillsides!
    that's why their fortifications/cities on hills etc had such fine roads leading up to them: the roads are required part of construction ;)

    the presence of fossils in sedimentary rock is quite normal, not sure of why the page makes significance of that? many such rocks are of course created on ocean, lagoon or lake bottoms and thus dead creatures build up in them over millions of years.
    There is, or was a beautiful marble or (marble like) stone front to a building in Glasgow that had fossil shells clearly visible in the highly polished stone :)
    (I know marble's creation usually would usually destroy such, hence I note it maybe "marble like" or perhaps just very rare example of metamorphic rock that didn't destroy the fossils in it's conversion)

    Romans used concrete very extensively. in fact their concrete was the strongest in the world until relatively recently, because they had discovered by accident that using certain materials which in their case came form volcanic deposits, created immensely strong concrete
    later on the Germans rediscovered such, by using fine dust from blast furnaces hence their U-Boat pens and other such were and sitll are incredibly hard to destroy
    basically, by using certian very fine materials, it sort of "fills in the gaps" between the concrete, resulting in a much stronger form.
    I remember as a yongster watching on TV, an attempt to destroy one of the U-Boat pens in ?France, iirc they used over a hundred tons of explosive, but it did bugger all to it!
    In recent years the strength and longevity of Roman concrete has been investigated for possible use for storing radioactive wastes

    there's an enormous block of RoOman concrete in SoOuthern England, something like 60 yards across and 20+deep, folk thought it had thus to be a treasure chamber and tried breaking in and even dynamiting it to little use
    turns out it was the foundation of a huge triumphal arch made for one of the EmMperors (Guess it would be Claudius or Hadrian?), but later torn down by locals over the centuries and bits of the fine stone turns up in local buildings

    Roman arch that survived
    [​IMG]

    Typos! typos my kingdom for typoless fingers! :p
     
  13. iacyi

    iacyi

    Messages:
    26
    Likes:
    3
    UK
    Slowly losing my mind and personality has made me accept a different outlook on existence. Our own consciousness may act in dimensions and non-dimensions we can't even contemplate where we are now. The only thing I doubt the existence of is nothing...
     
  14. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,248
    Likes:
    385
    Virginia, USA
  15. Jarod

    Jarod Senior Member

    Messages:
    780
    Likes:
    441
    planet earth
    Yep, The Nihilists and Atheists are going to have a fun trying to put this back in Pandoras box.

    Good find August59.
     
  16. erist

    erist

    Messages:
    99
    Likes:
    34
    Twin Cities
    Clearly the good neurosurgeon has never had a dream nor done a psychedelic or else he would know that subjective time and objective time don't matter at all. All of that, quite literally, could have happened in the seconds before he woke up. This isn't to say it is useless, I believe that these sorts of visions are profoundly important - both for the changes they inspire in the people that have them (which can be good or bad) and for what the reveal about "the wiring under the board". But I don't particularly think this experience reveals anything that thousands and thousands of other mystical / trance / psychedelic states haven't revealed.

    Frankly, I find the article a bit embarrassing. Why is this in a national magazine? I mean I'm sympathetic to mind/body dualism and I think that even if consciousness is an artifact of the brain, that it is..hmmm...the most significant development in the entire history of the universe. But I think this article is either preaching the the (angelic) choir or will be dismissed out of hand. There is nothing here that proves anything about consciousness one way or the other, and the doctor speaking as if his personal experience has just upended the material basis of consciousness is absurd.

    In some ways it is a /typical/ OBE/NDE. And I find that fact that it is typical in these ways far more interesting than finding it unusual or one of a kind.
     
  17. erist

    erist

    Messages:
    99
    Likes:
    34
    Twin Cities
    (excellent points by Sam Harris. Everything I was trying to say, but better! :) Thanks nanonug)
     
  18. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

    Messages:
    853
    Likes:
    693
    UK
  19. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,248
    Likes:
    385
    Virginia, USA
  20. erist

    erist

    Messages:
    99
    Likes:
    34
    Twin Cities
    Well, yes and no. It's certainly proof that this abilities exist within our brains, and that given either the right chemicals or the right conditions, we can perceive the world in radically different ways that may be very useful to us (or, take your pick, have the ability to perceive other realms of existence/consciousness that are off-limits to our usual conscious state). I don't think these experiences have to be denigrated just because they are part of "being high". It's still odd that it exists at all. But, yes, I still neglect to see how the NDE of one person who happens to be a neurosurgeon fundamentally changes any of the hard questions about consciousness that we are grappling with as a species - scientifically, religiously, existentially -
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page