This helps me,,, but why -- [Cold showers/baths]

[J.G]

Hi @J.G,

Have you ever tried just laying on an ice pack to see if that might help? I almost always feel better after laying on an icepack, And even with that, I treat myself very gently. I put a thick towel over it, so that it kind of gradually gets cooler and cooler--never unpleasant. I'm glad I discovered this as cold showers are too extreme for me.​

Hey, thanks. I will consider that next time I struggle to muster the physical strength and/or resolve to take an icy cold shower. My trick so far – and this is going to sound weird – is to think of Niki Lauda. When that man was hospitalised in 1976 with half his complexion consumed by flames, coughing up the burned out lining of his longs while James Hunt was out there winning races, he swore to fight back. Six weeks later he was on the grid again. A year later he cinched his second world championship. If a man can survive all that, I can get my ass under that frigid beam. Dramatic, I know, but it works.

From what I understand, for athletes to reap the benefits of ice baths, they need to totally submerge their bodies for some 2 minutes. I don’t know what bits of your body suffer from (hypothetical) lactate build-up most, but for me, the brain fog that builds with intellectual effort (as though my mind just “poops out” over time, usually <45mins even when feeling at my best) is by far the most irritating symptom of ME/CFS. (Besides feeling horrendously unwell >50% of the time, of course.) It stops any intellectual effort I try and make dead in its tracks. My point is: when I take icy showers, I try and give my head the full treatment on the assumption lactate is causing fogginess. An icepack might not cut it entirely (though I appreciate the suggestion!)

Also, from what I read, to get that vagus nerve stimulus that helps the shift from “fight or flight” to “rest and digest”, it’s literally necessary to give oneself (mild) thermal shock. Yikes. Oddly, one does acclimate to taking icy showers. I’ve been doing this for 5-6 weeks now, and it definitely gets easier. The first couple of weeks I’d get this involuntary heavy breathing as my body panicked at the torrent of 10C water pouring down on it; nowadays I barely flinch. Odd, but true. Less positively, this acclimatisation also makes me worry that cold showers’ effects on the vagus nerve will eventually stop as the body adjusts to such exposure, but we’ll see.

 

[J.G]

To post a quick update: yes, I still benefit quite a lot from taking cold showers. For up to an hour afterwards, I feel significantly less tired than usual. My eyes don't burn, the brain fog lifts, and that persistent feeling of general malaise dissipates. Also, I've noticed that temperature matters. The colder the water, the greater the effect.

I did a bit of googling on "hydrotherapy", "cold thermogenesis" and "fatigue", and came across this 2007 academic article by Shevchuk on the hypothetical transient benefits of cold exposure in CFS. I'm sure it's been posted on these forums before.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2164952/

Abstract:
"This work hypothesizes that repeated cold stress may reduce fatigue in CFS because brief exposure to cold may transiently reverse some physiological changes associated with this illness. For example, exposure to cold can activate components of the reticular activating system such as raphe nuclei and locus ceruleus, which can result in activation of behavior and increased capacity of the CNS to recruit motoneurons. Cold stress has also been shown to reduce the level of serotonin in most regions of the brain (except brainstem), which would be consistent with reduced fatigue according to animal models of exercise-related fatigue. Finally, exposure to cold increases metabolic rate and transiently activates the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis as evidenced by a temporary increase in the plasma levels of adrenocorticotropic hormone, beta-endorphin and a modest increase in cortisol. The increased opioid tone and high metabolic rate could diminish fatigue by reducing muscle pain and accelerating recovery of fatigued muscle, respectively."

 

[mariovitali]

I believe that this action helps to ameliorate inflammatory response which may be associated with ME/CFS

 

[nanonug]

I can get rid of all my pain by taking a 2/3 minute cold bath fully submerged, or cold cold shower 2/3 min,.this totally relives me of any pain and it can last all day.

Exposure to cold gets you a massive release of epinephrine from your adrenals. Epinephrine is a vasoconstrictor, among other things, and this action alone will resolve vasodilation-induced headaches. You may be able to achieve the same effect with a nicotine lozenge or maybe even a very strong cup of coffee.

 

[liverock]

https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/12-reasons-embrace-cold/

 

[Sundancer]

Hmm, might give it a try.
I've long shied away from it because I'm very vulnerable to get a cold, then bad snuffles and get otitis. But as this winter has passed without added viruses or severe colds...
I might, if it helps I would not mind it being very unpleasant

 

[gregh286]

Hi Everyone
I dont often post,,, but i know there is alot of great advice on here,, i have had this illness only 36 months,,
i suffer only with severe head pain and pain in my neck glands, no pain anywhere else, and no fatigue,,,
its there 3/4 hrs a day,, alot will suggest i dont have cfs/me.
i was told only by my doctor that it is..I believe i do have it because soon has i try any sort of exercise,,,, 48 hrs later my head pain will last for 3/4 days along with pain in my neck glands, also i get pain in parts of my face.

I can get rid of all my pain by taking a 2/3 minute cold bath fully submerged, or cold cold shower 2/3 min,.this totally relives me of any pain and it can last all day.
My question is its not a good experience and i am dreading winter,,lol,, what is happening to my body when i do this and is there any medication that would have the same affect,,,
apologises for grammar and spelling
Darran

Blood flow surge after bath as body returns to core body temperature.

Sure it cured sam cameron sister......
A mircale cure....

http://www.meassociation.org.uk/201...-with-m-e-for-a-year-daily-mail-27-june-2015/

 

[Sundancer]

and claims it eventually vanished after she swam in the freezing cold sea in County Galway.

scuse me, but when you're still able to swim i have some doubts whether that was ME.
But very happy she was cured from chronic fatigue

 

[gregh286]

scuse me, but when you're still able to swim i have some doubts whether that was ME.
But very happy she was cured from chronic fatigue

Must have been trendy to have cfs in notting hill at the time.
Nonsense like that just cripples our real voices.

 

[pattismith]

Exposure to cold gets you a massive release of epinephrine from your adrenals. Epinephrine is a vasoconstrictor, among other things, and this action alone will resolve vasodilation-induced headaches. You may be able to achieve the same effect with a nicotine lozenge or maybe even a very strong cup of coffee.

my own headache was linked to intracranial pressure.

At the begining it was relieved by coffee or ephedrine (both vasodilatators), then I became intolerant to both coffee and ephedrine and it stopped working.

I was totally cured when I started T3 once a day, and taking T3 allowed me to go back on coffee with much benefits for my energy.

Caffeine increases epinephrine, and T3 increases responsiveness to epinephrine, they also have a direct synergic effect on intracellular calcium, so this can explain why taking them together makes the difference.

I am on it for several months now but I still need some other stuff to function....

 

[Wayne]

my own headache was linked to intracranial pressure.

Hi @pattismith,

I find your experiences very interesting. I suffered from intracranial pressure and headaches for many years, and have only in the past couple of years been able to get a handle on it (90% or so anyway). I actually get a lot of relief for many years doing coffee enemas, but was unable to tolerate cofffe during this same time.

I eventually discovered DMSO mixed with magnesium oil greatly relieved a lot of that pressure. But I feel it's only been in the last couple of years that I've gotten my thyroid working much better. Perhaps that's the reason my chronic, daily headaches were able to be reduced by 90% or so. -- Thanks much for your comments!​

 

[Darran321]

Hi @pattismith,

I find your experiences very interesting. I suffered from intracranial pressure and headaches for many years, and have only in the past couple of years been able to get a handle on it (90% or so anyway). I actually get a lot of relief for many years doing coffee enemas, but was unable to tolerate cofffe during this same time.

I eventually discovered DMSO mixed with magnesium oil greatly relieved a lot of that pressure. But I feel it's only been in the last couple of years that I've gotten my thyroid working much better. Perhaps that's the reason my chronic, daily headaches were able to be reduced by 90% or so. -- Thanks much for your comments!​

Hi thanks for replying what is T3 yer if I have a cold bath my pain goes for 5/6 hrs also which I find really strange if I drink alcohol the next day again I have no pain for 24hrs why would this be
It happens every single time

 

[pattismith]

Hi thanks for replying what is T3 yer if I have a cold bath my pain goes for 5/6 hrs also which I find really strange if I drink alcohol the next day again I have no pain for 24hrs why would this be
It happens every single time

T3 is the main active thyroid hormon . The medical form of T3 is Liothyronine

 

[Wally]

Dr. Cheney’s hydrotherapy protocol for ME,/CFS as provided in Erica Verrillo’s CFS Treatment Guide.
http://www.cfstreatmentguide.com/blog/hydrotherapy-for-mecfs-dr-cheneys-protocol

(FYI - In addition to the CFS Treatment Guide, Erica has a blog titled “Onward Through the Fog” - http://cfstreatment.blogspot.com/ . Erica has also founded a new organization to help ME/CFS patients, their families and caretakers. Here is an explanation of the purpose of this organization. https://ammes.org/what-we-do/ )

The links noted above are provided if you are not familiar with Erica, who is a long time patient and advocate, and the wealth of information she has collected about this illness. If you have not explored the writings of this long time patient advocate, I would highly recommend taking the time to review the information and resources she has written about related to this illness.

@Darran321

 

[calexis6666]

Hi @pattismith,

I find your experiences very interesting. I suffered from intracranial pressure and headaches for many years, and have only in the past couple of years been able to get a handle on it (90% or so anyway). I actually get a lot of relief for many years doing coffee enemas, but was unable to tolerate cofffe during this same time.

I eventually discovered DMSO mixed with magnesium oil greatly relieved a lot of that pressure. But I feel it's only been in the last couple of years that I've gotten my thyroid working much better. Perhaps that's the reason my chronic, daily headaches were able to be reduced by 90% or so. -- Thanks much for your comments!​

 

[calexis6666]

Hi Wayne,

Do you think I can do coffee enemas if I am Sulfur Intolerant? The SIBO doctors in the Hydrogen Sulfide SIBO podcast recommended them for detox. But wouldn't the sulfur in the coffee affect me negatively?

 

[Wayne]

But wouldn't the sulfur in the coffee affect me negatively?

Hi @calexis6666 -- Unfortunately, that question is well outside my ability to give a good answer to. The person that comes to mind as someone who might have an answer would be @Hip. Perhaps he could chime in if he has something to offer.

 

[Hip]

But wouldn't the sulfur in the coffee affect me negatively?

Does coffee affect you normally?

 

[andyguitar]

To post a quick update: yes, I still benefit quite a lot from taking cold showers. For up to an hour afterwards, I feel significantly less tired than usual. My eyes don't burn, the brain fog lifts, and that persistent feeling of general malaise dissipates. Also, I've noticed that temperature matters. The colder the water, the greater the effect.

Are you still benefiting from the cold showers @J.G ?

 

[panckage]

@andyguitar ive been doing cold immersion off and on for 9 months now. My mobility is so much better when I do them daily and gets awful when I stop them. It also helps with pain and mood. POTS goes away (I guess because it closes up the outer arteries). I can naturally do some exercise after. It's great.

Now cold immersion can make me crash like anything else. Currently I just get my whole body wet with the shower. Move it to the side, soap up, and then rinse off. Maybe 2min under the water at most. It feels great to stay longer but also makes me crash. The short time allows me to do it without decreasing spoons. I have been doing as a part of Wim hof method.