Thirst for MFolate, those that have ramped up

[sregan]

Ok I did my day of just ACbl (the brand everyone on here mentions I forgot at the moment). Did 3 of them for 30mg and today felt depressed in the AM and moreso after MFolate until I took my regular Enz MB12. Wondering if I did not take enough ACbl since I'm doing better since I doubled my MB12.

Also wondering if ACbl is not doing whatever it is supposed to do? I thought some will get converted to MB12. Maybe some people do better taking a small amount each day? Does anyone remember why Freddd switched to once per week?

 

[whodathunkit]

Sounds like you maybe just needed your methylcobalamin on the day you took off. Try not taking a day off mb12 ntil you get more stable with your needs and more familiar with how to deal with tweaking. That is, do both adb12 and mb12 in the same day. Maybe just more mb12 on the adb12 day.

Or maybe you could do less adb12 more frequently. I was taking 10mg/day five days per week, along with my daily mb12 injections, for most of last year. I had good results doing that. That's how Freddd did it for a long time. He had good results, too. It's not that taking the two B12s in the same day is completely useless...just that they seem to work a bit better when taking them apart.

Does that make sense?

On another note, I'm bumping my folate up again to see what will happen with these symptoms (blepharitis and blurry vision) I've been experiencing ever since my "brain boost". I wonder if the surge of energy I got for those weeks while doing the nootropic stack caused me to maybe need more folate again. We'll see, I guess.

Good luck, @sregan!

 

[sregan]

The B vits are making me sleepy right now Esp. folate. I think it was @ahmo who just posted that folate increases NO, which perhaps I already have too much And I am surrounding myself of anti-ammonia and anti-uric acid supplements before anything else.

@whodathunkit your posts have always been an inspiration to me since my rocky beginning

@Gondwanaland According to this article

"Another possible cause of increased NO is decreased iron levels. One of the reasons for this is that hemoglobin and other iron-containing compounds bind to NO in the blood, rendering it inactive.

"Poor iron status and anemia may result from dietary insufficiency, not only of iron, but of folic acid and vitamin B-12 as well. Particularly in the elderly, B-12 deficiency is not uncommon."

 

[sregan]

Sounds like you maybe just needed your methylcobalamin on the day you took off. Try not taking a day off mb12 ntil you get more stable with your needs and more familiar with how to deal with tweaking. That is, do both adb12 and mb12 in the same day. Maybe just more mb12 on the adb12 day.

Or maybe you could do less adb12 more frequently. I was taking 10mg/day five days per week, along with my daily mb12 injections, for most of last year. I had good results doing that. That's how Freddd did it for a long time. He had good results, too. It's not that taking the two B12s in the same day is completely useless...just that they seem to work a bit better when taking them apart.

Does that make sense?

@whodathunkit Yeah, that sounds good. I venture to say I noticed nothing from yesterday when I only took ACbl. DId not seem any different in the least except the lack of MB12 I was feeling.

On another note, I'm bumping my folate up again to see what will happen with these symptoms (blepharitis and blurry vision) I've been experiencing ever since my "brain boost". I wonder if the surge of energy I got for those weeks while doing the nootropic stack caused me to maybe need more folate again. We'll see, I guess.

I have been researching high levels of NO and vision issues are related. Something to maybe look into.

 

[drob31]

@whodathunkit

I have been researching high levels of NO and vision issues are related. Something to maybe look into.

I have vision issues because of high cortisol. Allot of floaters, and bright light (day time sky) causes squigglies and flashes. Eye doctor says everything looks okay. I think the high cortisol is caused by the high NO levels. High cortisol causes collagen breakdown in the vitreous and eye sensitivity. I believe low cortisol can do the same.

Oh, and by the way, the floaters shouldn't be visible if eye sensitivity returns to normal. But when they are sensitive, you can see every one of them.

 

[drob31]

I just took 400 mcg today for the first time in a while, and at first it seemed to make me foggy/sleepy, then that wore off and I felt more clear headed than before.

 

[drob31]

I should also mention that I think high cortisol causes not only increased eye sensitivity but also liquidity of the vitreous, causing floater frenzies. I have zero science to back this up.

 

[whodathunkit]

@sregan, @drob31, thanks for the tip about cortisol and NO! Definitely something to look into. I don't have any floaters but just blurred vision. Plus the inflammation of my eyelid makes me think (hope) it may be just blepharitis causing the problem. But increased cortisol could also cause increased inflammation,and blepharitis is an inflammatory condition. I wonder if the choline and stuff I was taking kicked off my cortisol somehow. I did get a little strung out after a while when taking them.

drob, do floaters go away or are they permanent, even if your cortisol comes down?

 

[drob31]

@sregan, @drob31, thanks for the tip about cortisol and NO! Definitely something to look into. I don't have any floaters but just blurred vision. Plus the inflammation of my eyelid makes me think (hope) it may be just blepharitis causing the problem. But increased cortisol could also cause increased inflammation,and blepharitis is an inflammatory condition. I wonder if the choline and stuff I was taking kicked off my cortisol somehow. I did get a little strung out after a while when taking them.

drob, do floaters go away or are they permanent, even if your cortisol comes down?

The severity of the floaters lessens depending on the time of day. I believe I had adrenal issues without the fatigue component about 10 years ago. My eyes were very sensitive back then with floaters. The floaters completely "went away" when my eye sensitivity returned to normal, for about 8 years. Now they are very sensitive and I can see the floaters. Different times during the day it seems like the vitreous is less viscous. I suspect my electrolyte balance may be allowing more water to accumulate in the vitreous, as it has in other tissues such as subcutaneously.

 

[ahmo]

I also had lot's of floaters when seriously ill, none now.

 

[drob31]

I also had lot's of floaters when seriously ill, none now.

Did your cortisol ever test high?

 

[whodathunkit]

@drob31: I also have noticed that the vision changes during the day. I have blood sugar issues, too, which is why this is getting a little scary. But from what I've read, that happens with blepharitis, too...everything is pretty much fine when you first get up, but farther in the day the worse things get.

I had hoped that abstaining from the nootropics for a little while would put things back with my eyes,k but it's not happening the way I'd like.

@ahmo, anything specific you think resolved your vision issues? Or was it a bunch of things?

 

[ahmo]

@drob31 I'd have to go back over all my saliva tests from those years. As I recall, they never showed results that anywhere near reflected the mess I was in, my impossible sleep cycle, all the markers of hi cortisol.

@whodathunkit I think this was probably cumulative: first eliminating gluten, dairy. Later it was all the other minerals and such, but I don't know the exact time sequence.

 

[drob31]

@drob31 I'd have to go back over all my saliva tests from those years. As I recall, they never showed results that anywhere near reflected the mess I was in, my impossible sleep cycle, all the markers of hi cortisol.

@whodathunkit I think this was probably cumulative: first eliminating gluten, dairy. Later it was all the other minerals and such, but I don't know the exact time sequence.

So would you attribute your healing to coffee enema's and sodium bicarbonate baths?

 

[ahmo]

So would you attribute your healing to coffee enema's and sodium bicarbonate baths?

No. Those have been important components, but getting my biochemistry right w/ B12/folate, minerals, EFA's; eliminating gluten, dairy, and eventually gluten-cross-reactive foods; getting my thyroid right; and the additional detox strategies I combined w/ bicarb, CEs. Then low dose naltrexone has made a significant, really significant, improvement in my stamina over about 5 months. I've just started composing a blog post re the components of my illness. Will get it together in the next days.

I must say, where I once would have said my experience has suggested that my whole life was defined by low B12/folate, I could just as easily say my descent into illness began with my first exposure to gluten as an infant, and the antibody cascade that started up. However, at this point, I'm now investigating Martin Pall's No/ONOO- as the Theory of Everything...at least at this stage of my life/health cycle.

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Gondwanaland According to this article

"Another possible cause of increased NO is decreased iron levels. One of the reasons for this is that hemoglobin and other iron-containing compounds bind to NO in the blood, rendering it inactive.

"Poor iron status and anemia may result from dietary insufficiency, not only of iron, but of folic acid and vitamin B-12 as well. Particularly in the elderly, B-12 deficiency is not uncommon."

I draw blood yesterday, and my iron and ferritin are really good, but my RBC count is low. Serum B12 and folate are "excellent" as well, but of course underutilized due to low T3

I keep getting low T3 from eating goitrogens

My next bet is LDN, autoimmunity is a huge roadblock to anything I try

 

[Gyre]

Very interesting about the vision. Mine fluctuates rather a bit and drives me bonkers.

M

 

[whodathunkit]

I've been doing a little research and it seems there is also a connection between blurred vision and vasoconstriction. Vasoconstriction can also apparently be caused by choline.

High nitric oxide, which is a relaxant, is also apparently associated with low blood pressure, which I'm currently not having. I just had it checked (a few minutes ago) and it's a little on the high side.

Interestingly, I'm also taking most of the stuff that Pall recommends in his protocol. LOL

I read about a similar experience to mine happening to some guy on a discussion board. He was taking citicoline (one of the nootropics I took), got blurry vision, and it took a couple of months to resolve after he quit taking it.

I think for now I'm quitting eggs (bummer, I love eggs in the a.m.), any choline supps even the lipid supps, am going to get a cortisol test, and going to the eye doctor. I haven't been in a while so it's time, anyway.

Also going to get going with the Buteyko Breathing method again, which also is supposed to raise levels of NO. I'll try that for a week or so to see if things get better or worse, while I'm waiting to see the eye doctor and get results from the cortisol test, etc.

Guess we'll see what happens.

Sorry for highjacking your thread, @sregan!

 

[whodathunkit]

After some more reading I'm wondering if this might have to do with chronically lowering previously chronically high blood sugar. Seems that blurred vision can be a side effect of a consistent lowering of the sugar level your body is used to. If you have blurred vision from lowering blood sugar it typically takes a few weeks to a couple of months to resolve. I didn't think my sugars were *that* high (never over 200, for example) but they were consistently at a fairly scary level where, if I was taking regular blood tests with my doctor, I would have been diagnosed with diabetes (which is one reason I haven't had fasting blood work in a while, because I don't want that diagnosis following me around).

Interestingly, my blood sugar has plummeted since my gastro virus at Christmastime. That illness, whatever it was, seems (weirdly enough) to have changed my appetite somewhat, similar to when I started methylation. Back then my cravings for crap food were curbed, but now I seem to have a real preference for truly healthy food, as well as another spontaneous ramping down of preferred portion size. I hope it lasts for a while. LOL

Also read that choline can help improve insulin sensitivity. Maybe I'll keep taking the NTP and eating my eggs for now.

Just thinking out loud. As I said before, I guess we'll see. Could be so many things...

 

[sregan]

After some more reading I'm wondering if this might have to do with chronically lowering previously chronically high blood sugar. Seems that blurred vision can be a side effect of a consistent lowering of the sugar level your body is used to. Also read that choline can help improve insulin sensitivity. Maybe I'll keep taking the NTP and eating my eggs for now.

There are a few things that can help Insulin sensitivity. Chromium GTF is one I've had experience and success with.