Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
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Thinking about starting a methylation protocol, is this a good one?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by andre79, Jan 14, 2015.

  1. andre79

    andre79 Senior Member

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    Hello!

    I know there are hundreds of posts that explain methylation, but I don't have the energy or the brain clarity at this moment to read all of them, since I am doing an extra effort and focusing all my energy in the post-grade course I just started and working on line.

    So, i found this protocol (Dr. Myhills) which seems very simple to start with the methylation:
    http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/CFS_-_The_Methylation_Cycle

    Anyway, I have taken a Vitamin B supplement but I think these are the active forms of the vitamins which should be better. In the country where I live at the moment, i have no access to any genetic testing to see if i have gene mutations, so it would be more like a trial and error matter.

    I have read for many people here that they have gotten better with methylation. Please notice that i have a liver issue so i wonder how the protocol could affect me, good or bad. Please give me your opinion.

    Thanks again
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2015
  2. Gyre

    Gyre

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    I tried this before using Freddd's protocol. I never got enough methylfolate in me on that regime to get out of paradoxical folate insufficiency, so it just made me feel crap. Also, she doesn't emphasis the need for potassium, which also lead to a lot of unnecessary pain for me. I personally do much better on Freddd's protocol.

    Doesn't mean it won't work for you though.
     
    andre79 likes this.
  3. andre79

    andre79 Senior Member

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    I would like to get a very simplified version of @Freddd protocol. Like i was a 5 years old jeje

    Please!
     
  4. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    I don't have the exact brand supplements on my phone but Freddd talks about the deadlock quartet. The 4 things you need for sure

    MB12
    Methyl Folate. Solgar
    LCF L- carnotite fumarate
    AD12. (I think. This is from memory)

    Potassium for sure. Start low and go up slowly.

    I can get specifics when I get on my computer tomorrow but search deadlock quartet here. I know I started a thread about it last year.
     
    andre79 likes this.
  5. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    I would say to avoid glutathione and/or NAC entirely. The are unneeded as they are produced when methylation is started and can fully prevent methylation from starting and can cause damage in some percentage of people.

    Unfortunately the Active B12 protocol is not simple. It is as much a process of self observation to learn how your body works and responds as a set of nutrients. The amounts are reached by titration. I eventually reached 10mgx3 SC injections daily but started with a 1mg MeCbl sublingual of one of the effective brands. And it gets complicated. People can direct you to some of the summaries that have helped them get started. If you read around watch the signature areas and some carry the links you are looking for. Good luck.
     
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  6. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    This is from an old thread. It won't let me copy the link

    "Folger makes 400 mcg and 800 mcg. If you are able to read Freddd's or Rich Vanks protocol it will tell you brands and how to start. You also need potassium.

    I can't help you much more than that since it baffles me too. I have an NP who is helping me with it.

    This is from a post I got when I asked about the Deadlock Quartet per Freddd

    Methylcobalamin: Enzymatic Therapy 1000mcg/1mg, or CountryLife 5000mcg/5mg, #6304 (as you noted above)

    Adenosylcobalamin: Anabol Naturals Dibencozide

    L-carnitine Fumarate (LCF): Doctor's Best

    Methylfolate: Solgar Folate (as Metafolin)

    So the deadlock quartet are the supplements he feels are essential for most people to begin to find relief from the symptoms of b12 deficiency, and to begin healing the central nervous system.
     
    andre79 likes this.
  7. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Here is where it gets dangerous to follow someone else's protocol without understanding.

    If you have low cortisol, the phosphatidyl serine will make it even lower. I'm not sure you could kill yourself this way, but you could come close.
     
    Thinktank likes this.
  8. andre79

    andre79 Senior Member

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    I know what you mean, and i have no intention of doing anything that could harm me. But again, if i seek help from my doctor and mention methylation he probably won't let me do it, leave alone help me. What kind of doctors specialized in methylation?

    Be sure that I will keep your comment in mind.
     
  9. andre79

    andre79 Senior Member

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    When i read Dr Myhill's protocol i wondered why she added gluthatione since the point of methylation is to start the cycle to create gluthatione. Your comment makes sense, about the necessity of avoiding it.

    Thank you Freddd
     
  10. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    I know Freddd lays it out so you start one at a time and add others in and titrate up. Honestly I just went with:

    400 mcg methylfolate
    1000 mcg methyl b12
    6,000 mcg 1-2x week adb12
    900 mg LCF (l-carnitine fumurate)
     
  11. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    I'm starting to play around with it again too. Although a doctor I was recently working with had my on glutathione for his autoimmune proctol, and there was also NAC in one of his supplements, and Freddd says those are big no-no's. I'm not on them now, however.


    EDIT: Did I really just reply to myself?
     
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  12. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    It's best to know what's going on in your body methylation-wise before starting any "protocol".
    That way you can tailor it to your own needs. It's not just as simple as only taking B12 and folate, there are many cofactors that contribute to methylation some which you may need and some not.
    Doing a methylation panel and a genetics test like 23andme will set you in the right direction, i believe that's way better than doing it all by trial and error.
    Rich v. K. has contibuted a lot of valuable info on that part.
    Just my 2 cents.
     
    andre79 likes this.
  13. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    If you eat soy you can easily get that amount from the from diet. It's highly unlikely it will kill anyone.

    Sure, PS lowers cortisol significantly when taken at high doses (600mg) and it can control stress at lower doses (400mg).

    @andre79
    The problem with any methylation protocol is to start low and go slow. You will save yourself a lot of problems, especially if you're sensitive to supplements. Even better if you can introduce each element separately to check their effects separately. Starting with 4-5 new supplements at moderate to high doses it's likely to backfire and you may not be able to understand which pill caused which ill.

    The B6 for example is way too high (100mg) to start with. 5-10mg are already moderate doses. You might need that much (100), but do not start with that much. I for one could only tolerate 5mg at once in the early days of the protocol.

    The two fundamental elements to start with are methyl-B12 and methyl-folate. In that order. Start with B12, small dose, like 250mcg. See how it goes for a while, such as a couple of weeks. If you're doing well try upping the dose a little bit. Then introduce methyl-folate, 100mcg, if the B12 didn't cause any anxiety. If it did, maybe you need to start with less folate.

    Once these two are working for you and you're seeing some improvements you may want to add a basic B Complex to keep all your Bs in balance, and from there you can start adding other co-factors such as the Carnitine, phosphatidyl serine, zinc etc...

    hope it helps
     
    andre79 likes this.
  14. andre79

    andre79 Senior Member

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    Do you feel a significant change or improvement with that protocol?
     
  15. andre79

    andre79 Senior Member

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    So, i guess there is no point of starting the methylation protocol without testing first. What are the specifis test i should do? To do the 23 and me should i go abroad or is there a way to send the sample by mail?
     
  16. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    I started the methylation protocol way before the 23andMe test because there were already clear signs of problems in my blood work: moderate anemia, low B12, low folate, high homocysteine.

    Have you done a blood test recently?
    Sure the 23andMe can give you more insight. Also a methylation panel would be good, though quite expensive (€300, in europe)

    cheers
     
  17. Jammy88

    Jammy88 Senior Member

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    I'm very interested in starting a methylation protocol, too. It looks very interesting and have been thinking about it for a while. However, I have no idea where to start from.

    @andre79 if you get good results, please lemme know ! :)

    best.
     
  18. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    @andre79

    I would think the best starting point for methylation is the latest revision that Rich Van Konynenburg made to his protocol, which is this one, updated just before his death in September 2012. It is quoted below:

    FolaPro is the methylfolate supplement.


    Folinic acid is straightforward to buy, but methylfolate has loads of synonyms and different forms, so this is a little confusing. This webpage gives a good list of all the different names. Basically for methylfolate you want to buy either:

    L-5-MTHF
    = L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolate
    = 6(S)-L-MTHF = 6(S)-L-Methyltetrahydrofolate

    or:
    L-Methylfolate Calcium
    = Metafolin
    = Levomefolic Acid
     
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  19. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    Does anyone like the holistic health all in one? It seems like a multivitamin with extremely low doses of vitamins/minerals.
     
  20. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Folinic acid can be as bad or worse than folic acid for some people. Not all methylfolate forms are as effective as Metafolin. Personally, until I had succeeded in getting methylation started up with MeCbl and Metafolin, then a person can do a comparison. Until they have succeeded in getting methylation going, and are taking folinic acid and/or HyCbl the person will never know whether those are causing them to spin their tires in the dark or if something else is the problem.
     

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