Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Athene, Feb 20, 2012.
Yes, those are the ones!!!
The cortisol/detox thing is from "Adrenal Fatigue" by Dr. James Wilson. He explains the detox effect there.
I'm not taking cortisol. I took hydrocortisone briefly and it had a disastrous effect on me, even though my cortisol was extremely low. I follow the protocol in the Wilson book which is a set of nutrients that the adrenal glands need to work. It took me a few months to get the full effect. You can add in herbs after that to bring about greater effects but I don't take them, they were too strong for me (made me hyper then burnt out).
It definitely happened to me, it was quite remarkable the way my detoxing rate rose. It is the biliary route detox, not urinary route, that steps up as your cortisol levels rise. That means you need to take fibre to help mop up the toxins to prevent re-absorption further down the gut. I take fibre half an hour after each meal, and if I forget a dose, I feel poisoned.
Apparently half the toxins we have need to go out that route, and cannot leave via urine. So methylation support will only do half the job. Some toxins can leave the body by either route but most can only go one way or the other.
this post really intrigued me as I have GERD and dysbiosis that I have worked on a lot with probiotics and diet, havent been tested for fructose malabsorption but suspect it, Cheney recommends some of same things as KDM like taking it easy on fruit consumption.
anyway, I was able to find the acetyl glucosamine yesterday at Vitamin shop locally, source naturals brand, and i took half of one to test it as I am sensitive to new things sometimes, and its too early to tell, but I did have a better day as have been in a flare up the last week as I had a retreat on a root canal and it was a trauma to me physically, the work jars my head and spine and whatever effect there is on body of having an infection treated in tooth. not on antibiotics. but I had a better day finally of lesser headache and pain, am curious to see if taking the glucosamine continues to help progress or if just coincidence. I went to wikipedia about the acetyl form and they cite 2 studies of its efficacy with autoimmune issues which is very encouraging, i just found out have sjogrens last year and am hypothesizing that if some of my flare ups are some sort of AI storm perhaps the glucosamine just the thing for it. There were a lot of glucosamine sulphate supplements at vitamin shop, hard to find the n-acetyl glucosamine form, I would think the sulphate form would be bad for gut as sulphate contributes to that problem of hydrogen in gut--Rich has said that there are bacteria that can chemically reduce sulfate and produce hydrogen sulfide from it and he has suggested the people who do not tolerate sulfate well may have a larger than normal population of such bacteria in the gut.
Just to make sure no one gets the sulphate form!
thanks for the idea!
Athene, could you say what nutrients you take for adrenals and the form of fiber you like? stuff like metamucil doesnt agree with me.
do you know why it says on the N-A-G bottle not to take it with acetiminophen? I dont take a lot of tylenol, after I saw a study saying there is a lifetime safe amount, not just danger of acute overdose but cumulative, I stopped using it for years and now occasionally do when despeate altho its not that helpful for pain anyway. but curious of mechanism thats adverse with it and NAG.
Here's the thread I started a while back about the adrenal therapy.
I basically summarised the whole book, so you'll get all the info you need there!
The fibre I take is psyllium husk. I swear by that stuff. It's marvellous! It's really good if you take your probiotics with it, as it helps them grow into live colonies in the gut.
I'm afraid I have no idea how NAG interacts with acetamoniphen. Let's dig around a bit, if I find anything I'll post it.
I also had no idea that it helps with autoimmune problems too. I have high ANA titers so that is very good to know. I wonder if that could be why my allergies seem to be calming down somewhat since I've been talking it??? I have read a few times that allergies and anutoimmune situations can go hand-in-hand when there are chronic infections.
I think it's time to go and do some Googling!
BTW I just decided to mention today that I am not sure about this dairy thing.
I'm getting a bit of diarrhoea and my tummy is a bit sore and bloated. But I don't have any headache, which milk used to give me.
I have a suspicion that this means the leaky gut aspect of the milk problem may have been resolved, but the allergy part has not.
Athene thanks for the link to adrenal info.
I am wondering if the N-A-G is hard for me to break down, could easily be coincidence, but I had healed a minor corneal abrasion a couple months ago, it took a couple months to heal, but now it seems to be regressing, eyes got drier in last couple days for some reason....in past my eyes have had more irritation with trying certain meds or supplements, usually means I have a p450 issue with whatever it is....shoot, the pain issue calmed down it seemed but the dry eye one worsened...so going to proceed cautiously, take a break, lower dose etc
That's a bummer about your eyes, I'm really sorry to hear that and I hope they improve again soon.
It might be worth dropping an email to Jarrow to ask them for information about how it could be affecting your eye. I often ask producers about their products, you can learn all kinds of stuff. They have nutriotionists who seem to enjoy being asked weird questions!
I found out about the tylenol. Apparently glucosamine may reduce the efficacy of tylenol.
This page metions other potential interactions
(you may need to click on the interactions tab to get there)
This article also explains it a bit more, wiht other interesting info:
This one suggests the problem is with glucosamine sulphate, which would suggest the types of glucosamine we're taking should be OK.
athene, what's the difference between Fructose Malabsorption and Leaky Gut Syndrome? Is it just a form of LGS? Anyway I ordered the two supplements you mentioned and will give them a shot!
Good luck with these, I hope they help you too!
Normally fructose is moved into the blood by a transport factor called GLUT-5, which is produced and secreted by cells lining the intestine and attaches to the molecules of fructose, allowing them to cross into the blood stream. Fructose malabsorption means thee cells are damaged. You cannot absorb fructose (or only a tiny amount) from the gut into the bloodstream. This means it stays in the gut and is fermented into gases (usually hydrogen) by gut bacteria, and osmotically draws water into the gut. In terms of symptoms this means you get farts, diarrhoea and lots of pain.
Leaky gut comes from a problem with the way the cells lining the intestine are stuck together. They are supposed to be firmly attached to one another (like bricks in a wall cemented together) and nearly all types of nutrient molecules are only allowed between them if attached to transport factors, of which GLUT 5 would be one example. In leaky gut the cement is damaged so you have something like a drystone wall, which lots of naughty molecules can slip through and enter the blood stream.
The big questions here are, what hold the cells together, and why has it become leaky?
Apparently one of the things that holds them together is sulphation, which involves a coating including sulphur, so people who (like me) have lost the ability to convert sulphites into sulphates have a problem here.
I think these supplements have a role to play too as they heal the cells, which may mean they improve their ability to reinforce the "wall".
One reason (I am starting to think) that they become leaky in the first place is biofilms inthe gut. The biofilms cling to the surface of these cells and dig in, so that there are bacteria actually wedged between some of the cells of what should be an imprenetrable barrier.
There's a diagram of them on this page.
(scroll down to "intact mucosal barier and disturbed mucosal barrier", which shows a picture of cells lining a leaky gut)
I am still not sure how much these sups have repaired my leaky gut. So far, what I think is, improved but not totally resolved. But I am only able to go on what symptoms I usually get from dairy and gluten (mainly) and try to unravel them from all the other symptoms I get anyway, which is not easy. Lots of different things can give me a headache, for example.
I am waiting on tenterhooks for Globalpilot to do the leaky gut test so we can get an actual measurement!
I cannot find any lab/doctor where I live which does this test.
How do those two products work in terms of fructans (like onions, etc.)?
Just wanted to let you know it may be a while before I do the intestinal permeability test. I'm overseas until the end of March. It may be May or so until I get it done.
Also how about sorbitol. This seems to be common in those with FM.
Works perfectly with fructans, and other fructosey things like FOS. I made a curry literally stuffed with onions and garlic last week and had no problems.
And I am taking probiotics with FOS, which previously gave me awful problems.
I don't know about sorbitol, I always avoid things with sorbitol because it is apparently generally unhealthy. It did upset my tummy a lot before I gave it up. Is it definitely related to fructose? I didn't know that. Does it get absorbed in the same way?
Thanks for letting me know.
Please remember to report back when you do get it done.
Meanwhile enjoy your stay abroad - I hope you're somewhere nice!
I'm talking about natural sources of sorbitol like plums, nectarines, etc.???
I didn't even know it was in fruit!
I've just looked it up and apparently it is in apples and pears. I eat about 2 or 3 apples or pears a day, so I presume that means it is no problem for me.
Apples and pears certainly used to be disastrous.
I saw on the internet that it gets converted to fructose. It that before or after it is absorbed?
Since you sem to be quite an expert on sugars, what do you know about maltodextrin?
I have always had atrocious pain and then diarrhoea from eating that. It was like the fructose effect but far worse, indescribably awful.
I have been wondering if it is related to the fructose problem, but I cannot find anything on the Internet, and I am simply too scared to test it now.
I'm not sugar expert but pretty sure I read somewhere that maltodextrin is derived from corn...
I wonder if it breaks down into fructose, the way FOS does? Some intermediate molecule, on the way to becoming high-fructose corn syrup inside us?
Maltodextrin can be derived from corn and usually is but can also be derived from wheat and tapioca - quite common 'Down Under'.
It wasn't a problem for any of our family, as I believe the cycle works like this:
Flour -> Starch -> Maltodextrin -> Glucose Syrup -> Dextrose ( -> Caramel Colouring, etc.)
A dietician told me that everything from Starch downwards (regardless of the source) is normally fine if they use glucose syrup and not "high fructose" glucose syrup (e.g. HFCS, High Fructose Wheat Syrup, Glucose-Fructose Syrup, etc.).
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