The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
OverTheHills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Things Which Definitely Are Not Illnesses or Diseases

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Yogi, Oct 11, 2011.

  1. Yogi

    Yogi Senior Member

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    http://www.spectator.co.uk/rodliddle/7277993/dr-liddles-casebook.thtml


    I got an email from the Fibromyalgia Society this week, urging me to write something about this distressing disease. I did a modicum of research and discovered that it is another one of those imaginary afflictions claimed by malingering mentals. I may be wrong about this, Im simply reading between the lines of the various studies into the condition.

    As a gift to medical science I thought we should compile a list of things a compendium, if you like which are definitely illnesses or diseases and things which arent, so as to help the doctors. Let me begin but please join in:

    Things Which Definitely Are Illnesses or Diseases

    Throat cancer
    Scabies
    Measles
    Heart attacks and related stuff
    Strokes
    Diabetes
    Most other sorts of cancer
    Emphysema
    Tubercolosis the Great Leveller!
    Scrotrot
    Hepatitis contracted when administering law and order in a colony
    Yellow Fever
    Gout
    The shits
    Being blind

    Things Which Definitely Are Not Illnesses or Diseases

    Fibromyalgia
    Addiction to alcohol
    Addiction to drugs
    Obesity
    Being a bit odd
    M.E.
    Hepatitis contracted when behaving in an inappropriate manner
    Stress
    Wearing spectacles
    Addiction to sex



    The owners of the Spectator are the Barclay Brothers

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spectator

    Sir Frederick Barclay supposedly has ME/CFS

    http://www.theoneclickgroup.co.uk/news.php?id=45#newspost
     
  2. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Rod Liddle is one of those people who has made a career out of saying stupid things which reflect the prejudices of a large group of people, so don't take it too personally. I don't think letter writing about this is really worthwhile, because anyone who has hired him is clearly happy ot promote nonsense in their publications.

    This is my favourite one:

    edit: If Frederick Barclay has ME/CFS, that could be different though. Sorry - I didn't read the first post properly.
     
    Enid likes this.
  3. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    He seems to mix crude humour with world-class douchebaggery. I doubt anyone takes him seriously except immature hate-mongers.
     
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  4. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member

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    The other side.
    dunno but on the off chance he's rught I'm staying away from blind people as a lot of illnesses/diseases are contagious. I'm also curious as to which types of cancer arent illnessess or diseases - is that the ones they use CBT only for?
     
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  5. Yogi

    Yogi Senior Member

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    I posted this the info about the owner of the magazine, Frederick Barclay, if anyone who has the energy wished to make a complaint to him about this article.
     
  6. Desdinova

    Desdinova Senior Member

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    Maybe Melanoma, after all "it can't kill you." At least that's what many folks have told and continue to tell me about it. To which I reply try telling that to my father who died from it. I have a Fibro diagnosis and my father didn't believe in it. It hurt knowing this and being diagnosed shortly before he died.
     
  7. justinreilly

    justinreilly Senior Member

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    Not that offended by this if this guy is just a shock jock which he looks like he is. the thing i find weird about him is why a newspaper (as opposed to a comedy site) would have him do a blog; and why anyone would sponsor him and have him on their site since he's not that funny (at least from this post, imo).
     
  8. ixchelkali

    ixchelkali Senior Member

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    I think there's some kind of scum bloggers network out there that's passing the word, if you want to increase the hits to your blog, say insulting things about ME/CFS patients. They'll respond with comments and Bob's-your-uncle, your readership is up.
     
  9. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    I wouldn't be surprised if this was an incentive for some.
     
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  10. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch Owner of Dx Revision Watch

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    Justin, Rod Liddle is not just a "shock jock" with a blog.

    He's a former editor of BBC Radio 4's Today programme. He also has a regular column in the Sunday Times and has written for the Guardian. He wrote a particularly nasty and ill-informed piece in the Sunday Times a month or so ago about ME patients.

    "He became an associate editor with The Spectator. He also writes for the men's magazines, GQ and Arena, and a weekly column for The Sunday Times." Wikipedia

    For context see Liddle's bio, here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Liddle


    But it is the case that he often writes in order to shock and cause offense - it gets him and the publications he writes for hits.

    I was unable to upload a comment in response to this latest piece of his (an idea that is pinched from a controversial BMJ poll several years ago) but instead, I sent my comment and concerns to the Editor of the Spectator. I have yet to receive a response.


    You can read the Sunday Times piece here on the MEA's website: http://www.meassociation.org.uk/?p=7373

    Sunday Times, 31 July 2011 (comment piece by Rod Little)

    Shoot the medical messenger see if thatll cure you


    According to Liddle:

    "[Prof Simon Wessely] believes the illness, which results in debilitating tiredness, aches and pains and so on, probably has a neurological basis." and he goes on to say that is why Wessely comes in for criticism.

    Poor Rod could not even get that right.

    After the Sunday Times piece I sent Liddle a PDF copy of the new international criteria.


    On his Spectator column, he curiously uses a photo that must have been taken twenty years ago. He's actually in his early 50s. He's a wind up merchant and if this is the best he can turn in, it's time the Spectator put him out to grass - but if he's still associate editor, that seems unlikely.

    There is no "Fibromyalgia Society" registered with the Charity Commission but a spokesperson for a Fibromyalgia patient association did leave a comment in response to his snark piece.

    Many years ago, when Harold Evans was editor, I worked for a while at the Sunday Times and I'm appalled that the paper should have run such a nasty, ill-informed piece.


    Suzy
     
  11. Jill McLaughlin

    Jill McLaughlin

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    ME/CFS is not an illness, it doesn't really exist other than as a made up term. CFS is not an illness,
    it is fatigue and some other symptoms. ME is NOT CFS. ME is an illness.

     
  12. justinreilly

    justinreilly Senior Member

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    Suzy, thanks for the info. I agree that that is inappropriate then. I find that article of his one of the worst i have ever read and that's saying something. thanks for writing in.
     
  13. Yogi

    Yogi Senior Member

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    Thank you and Thank you!!
     
  14. eric_s

    eric_s Senior Member

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    Is it legal in the UK to say something like this? Or was this meant to be humour?

    It contains some pretty heavy insults, plus also i think the necessary evidence to prove this guy wrong exists.

    I can't do it, because i'm not in the UK and also i really don't have too much free capacity at the moment, but can't somebody sue/denounce this person and/or the paper?

    ICD-10 classification, Dubbo studies, EEG spectral coherence, CSF proteomics, CSF lactate studies, gene expression after exercise (and these are just some examples) should be enough evidence this is a real disease.

    There would also be enough credible experts who could testify, like the Drs. Komaroff, Montoya, Klimas and many others.

    I think we can write angry letters forever without much effect, maybe sometimes it even hurts our cause, but this looks like a case that we might be able to win. And it would teach these people.

    Can't somebody in the UK look into this and ask a lawyer there, please?
     
  15. eric_s

    eric_s Senior Member

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    I'll pay 100 to the legal costs if we find a good lawyer who is ready to look into this.
     
  16. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch Owner of Dx Revision Watch

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    Eric, it would be a waste of time. This is Rod Liddle, the only difference between a troll and Liddle is that Liddle gets paid for this rot.

    There are more important issues that need our time.
     
  17. eric_s

    eric_s Senior Member

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    That's always a personal judgement and it's ok we don't all see this the same way. I would like to finally see a court validate our position and stop somebody like this and show them where the line is.
     
  18. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch Owner of Dx Revision Watch

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    Supposing you could interest a British legal firm and supposing you could raise the funds, on what grounds would you sue him, Eric?

    You would not be able to sue for defamation against an individual.

    http://www.swarb.co.uk/lawb/defGroups.shtml

    Defamation law is the law which defends the reputation of individuals. A group of people will not normally have a reputation as such, and so cannot normally be defamed. What constitutes an individual, however, is not always quite so obvious. What follows is a simple versions of the rules:

    1.Defamation protects living individuals only. The right to defend your reputation dies with you. Try counting the number of people who felt free to criticise Robert Maxwell after his death, rather than before.
    2.A defamation which is stated so widely as to apply to a broad group, defames neither that group as a whole, nor any individual within it. However, the law of innuendo might be applied in some contexts.
    3.An identified group of individuals can be defamed. For example, to say of a football team that some of them 'are drunken sots', is to defame each and every member of the team - even if the author wanted only to refer to one or two of them. He does not differentiate between them, neither will his audience, and neither will the judge. When a group becomes sufficiently diffuse is a question for each particular occasion, but a helpful starter test is whether they can each be named.
    4.Politicians seem to be coming into a class of their own. Recent developments suggest that, for example a political party cannot sue to protect its good name, nor can a local authority (although individuals forming part of the Local Authority may do), and last but not least, a politician may find that some defences are more easily available to a defendant than others (Reynolds v Times Newspapers Ltd et al CA Times 09-Jul-98).
    5.A defence of qualified privilege applies in defamation proceedings reporting acts of public officials where there appears to be a duty to publish, a proper public interest in hearing the allegations and proper reporting procedures (even though allegations false) See also the Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms 1953 Cmd 8969).
    6.A limited company can sue only insofar as the alleged defamation relates in some way to its trading activities. It does not have a personal reputation to defend, but only one as a trader.
    This is by no means a full explanation of the law in this area.

    -------------
     
  19. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch Owner of Dx Revision Watch

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    Eric, you can't just "sue" someone. You have to have grounds and strong case, otherwise no legal firm is going to touch it. And you need funding.

    I know how angry this type of rot makes people - it makes me angry, too. But one has to be realistic and unless there is a law that can be used against him it would be a waste of time, energy and money to pursue it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_the_United_Kingdom

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#United_Kingdom
     
  20. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

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    this "humour" piece was just plain stupid.
    i say ignore him, like all bad little trolls should be ignored.
     
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