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9th Invest in ME International ME Conference, 2014 - Part 1: Autoimmunity and ME
Mark Berry begins a series of articles on the 9th Invest in ME International ME Conference in London, with a look at three presentations on autoimmunity
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The Undetectable Infection

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Elph68, Nov 30, 2013.

  1. mellster

    mellster Marco

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    Sounds good. When you can reveal more and are looking into funding or web-initiatives, feel free to shoot me a message. I am a seasoned web programmer and also trade in biotech mainly. I am definitely interested in any theories/approaches that bypass serum studies and look into tissue biopsies (and additionally screening for "normal" or "opportunistic" pathogens) instead.
    rosie26 likes this.
  2. aimossy

    aimossy Senior Member

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    How could it be detected or researched?
    tissue biopsy only?
    rosie26 likes this.
  3. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    It seems over 20% of the population has a genetic abnormality in their interleukin 10 cytokine. This causes the inflammation to be constantly visible and the severity depends on the abnormality level.

    So just because there is no visible inflammation, it doesn't mean it isn't there as the body is still producing pro-inflammatory and anti-inflammatory responses.
  4. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    No dramas and thanks .... I don't need money, I back my own theories ...... It won't be at least until the northern summer ....

    I gather that it may be a bit cold this time of year in countries that used to be behind the iron curtain ...
  5. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    I am targeting a couple of bugs initially ..... These are plaque/tartar forming bugs that should not be found anywhere other than your teeth .... So a swab/scrape and then culture will show if they are present at other locations. Unfortunately only research labs can operate like this, commercial labs can't/won't identify non pathogens ...
  6. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    They may do .... but I can't find anywhere in the literature where a viridans strep antibody has been isolated to date .... particularly not the bugs that I would like targeted ......

    Streptococcus pneumonia may be the exception .....

    They just haven't been looking at these bugs ........
  7. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    And just so you know how I believe this all started, I believe it has been caused by penicillin ......

    Macrolide use has made it worse .....

    So now I have opened that can, that will have to be my next installment ..... may not be until after I get back from New Zealand, which will be next weekend .....

    See how my world goes .....
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013
    aimossy likes this.
  8. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    So if you want a conspiracy theory and the reason why you can't get research funding ..... start looking at the drug companies that make these abx .....
  9. aimossy

    aimossy Senior Member

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    I wondered if you might say antibiotics.
    specifically penicillin tho?
    I have had times probably like a lot of others wondering if antibiotics could be part of the problem
    but I think there could be a lot of plausible arguments for it to not be the case as well.
    I wonder what people think around this.
    I had penicillin once after my ME developed and I was ver very bad on it.I had to stop taking it.
    I hadn't had that experience with penicillin before ME but that does not mean cause or effect.
    its interesting Elph:)
    female prevalence i still feel is a very important factor as well.
    you should just put your whole theory out there Elph people will either take it on board or not you dont have anything to loose lots of people have lots of theoryies if people like it they will get behind it. ME has nothing to loose in this area.:)
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
    rosie26 likes this.
  10. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    I got a lot on the go, so I just can't sit down and type for hours .... and there is a lot to it ..... although the concept is simplistic ..... I am getting there ...
    rosie26 and aimossy like this.
  11. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    I was tested 2 years ago for streptococcus antibodies in my blood but it came back negative. However I did have 6 Herpes type viruses over the range. Also I have had 2 Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis done over 5 years and neither of these showed up any streptoccocus or entercoccus. On the other hand I do have an almost permanent sore, red throat which often has white ulcers on it and a right eye which gets very irritated, red and swollen and pours with tears. Antihistamine drops do help though.

    Pam
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
  12. bel canto

    bel canto Senior Member

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    This may not be at all relevant, but does anyone else remember having a lot of penicillin as a kid? In the early 60's, we were given penicillin shots for every cold, sore throat, etc. I've always wondered if it had any long-term impact.
  13. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    Hi Pam,

    if your doctor calls the ulcers apthous or 'canker sores' then they are most likely viridans strep. Not sure of stool test you have done, if it identifies and counts the bacteria then that is good, if it was a regular lab test they would only have looked for pathogens, and strep would not be reported.

    Viridans strep doesn't produce regular strep antibodies, but DNase B can be found occasionally.
  14. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    With what I am suggesting, it is highly relevant ......
    rosie26 likes this.
  15. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    You do like being mysterious, don't you?!

    ...:D
    SOC, rosie26, aimossy and 1 other person like this.
  16. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    Don't worry ... I am not trying to hide anything .... just making sure I can back up my claims with fact!
  17. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    The stool test was through Genova Diagnostics who are quite forward thinking regarding latest evidence of cause of illnesses. My GP just looks at my throat and gives me antibiotics but these never get rid of it completely and I have difficulty tolerating most antibiotics. I find that a mixture of herbs like olive leaf extract, thyme and sage helps my throat together with echinacea, doesn't stop if from being red and angry looking but stops it hurting. BTW This happens all year but I am not so aware of it during the summer months.

    I also had a huge amount of penicilin as a kid because of frequent sore throats! I am now 65 years old but first got sick with 2 weeks of flu from which things were never the same way back in 1979.

    Pam
  18. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    Hi Pam,

    That is a commercial lab, they do not consider viridans strep a pathogen so a positive result will be returned as 'normal flora'.

    Everything you have presented, the tests you have done, supports the undetectable infection theory.

    It would be resistant to the antibiotics you are taking orally, so there is no point wasting your money.

    Cheers
  19. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    While I am putting this all together, some of you may get some insight into the dangers of viridans streptococcus from this paper.

    It shows how it attacks cells .... thus put them in your gut, they blast holes in it which causes leaky gut ....

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
  20. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    And here is a paper that shows an outbreak of a mutant viridans strep causing toxic shock ....

    This shows that supposedly non-pathogenic strep can become pathogens and cause disease .... such as long term sore throats, pneumonia etc.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013

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