The Undetectable Infection

[Methhead81]

HI GP,

There is an element that says you take a short course of antibiotics, and then live on their supplements and a low carb diet and you may achieve a 75% recovery ..... while they get rich ......

Personally, as stated, this is an infection and it has a 3 part answer:

1. Build the immune system - most are already doing this
2. Eradicate the pathogen - systemic antibiotics
3. re-stablish the good bugs - Drink poo and FMT .... (eek)

.

I suspect I may have SIBO and could be suffering from a problem with this kind of bacteria. I want to get started on building my immune system, so where should I start?

I recently ordered some Arginine and Lysine, which is also because this was recommended for heavy metal chelation (which I believe is the root cause of my problems, Mercury).

If someone could guide me on where I should start before I move onto antibiotics, I would be forever greatful, some advice on how I should use the antibiotics to prevent a resistant strain is also quite important.

 

[picante]

Garden of.life have a 100Billion cell SBO probiotic with live kefir....out around a year ago. Looks pretty good.

That is the one I've decided to try, since the Women's formula has a few "extras" that I don't want to take: folate and vit. D, for starters. When I was taking D, I was over-converting to calcitriol. I stopped D, and my TPO antibodies came down.

 

[knackers323]

I suspect I may have SIBO and could be suffering from a problem with this kind of bacteria. I want to get started on building my immune system, so where should I start?

I recently ordered some Arginine and Lysine, which is also because this was recommended for heavy metal chelation (which I believe is the root cause of my problems, Mercury).

If someone could guide me on where I should start before I move onto antibiotics, I would be forever greatful, some advice on how I should use the antibiotics to prevent a resistant strain is also quite important.

@Methhead81 ill be interested to see how the arginine and lysine works for the heavy metals. ive never heard of them being used for this before.

have you had exposure to mercury before?

has anyone tried activated charcoal. would it potentially "mop up" any of the toxins being produced by these bacteria?

 

[Methhead81]

@Methhead81 ill be interested to see how the arginine and lysine works for the heavy metals. ive never heard of them being used for this before.

have you had exposure to mercury before?

has anyone tried activated charcoal. would it potentially "mop up" any of the toxins being produced by these bacteria?

Mother with amalgams, vaccines (luckily I didn't have too many growing up), and Tuna.

Arginine and Lysine is for things like Yeast, it helps the immune system.

Mercury poisoning likely allowed for the SIBO to occur in the first place. The diet I was put on was high in thiols, which can fertilize yeast and other bad bacteria.

 

[knackers323]

anyone know if there is a way to test for LPS in the blood. either directly or indirectly?

 

[Elph68]

One of the supplements I keep talking about through this thread is yakult.

You may find this article interesting on how it increases NK cell function.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/137/3/791S.full

Cheers.

 

[Elph68]

What symptoms have you lost? The swollen neck glands suggest that there may still be active (auto)immune reactions going on.

Hi @MeSci ... I agree there is still some auto immunity .... Although I believe it is no longer as bad .... Do you know any tricks to turn it off???

Cheers.

 

[Seven7]

Do you know any tricks to turn it off???

I heard like diet and eliminating certain things will reverse the autoimmune reactions. I don't know if it is truth but I heard of it in the gut summit. They have some tests (the naturalists) where you can see them go up or down until symptoms disappear ( based on what is causing your particular issue). I am not very educated in the topic but if you start there might help you: http://healthygutsummit.com/ (when I did it was free). All I cared about was for the test name (I forgot by now) but if you can find out, you can see which markers are high and then you research how to turn those particulars ones off.

 

[freddy77]

I know that stress can course lots of problem in the body . It will effect the bowel in many ways . It can even switch on cancer .as we all have cancer it just needs something to trigger it .swollen neck glads means that part of the body someything in the head fighting an infection or problem in the head .. It could be anything down to something you put in your mouth . good luck on finding the problem




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[Elph68]

I heard like diet and eliminating certain things will reverse the autoimmune reactions. I don't know if it is truth but I heard of it in the gut summit. They have some tests (the naturalists) where you can see them go up or down until symptoms disappear ( based on what is causing your particular issue). I am not very educated in the topic but if you start there might help you: http://healthygutsummit.com/ (when I did it was free). All I cared about was for the test name (I forgot by now) but if you can find out, you can see which markers are high and then you research how to turn those particulars ones off.

I believe it is the protease expressed by these bacteria that is causing the issue .... So I am still trying to beat them down and get them out of my lymphatic system ....

cheers

 

[knackers323]

I believe it is the protease expressed by these bacteria that is causing the issue .... So I am still trying to beat them down and get them out of my lymphatic system ....

cheers

@Elph68 do all guy bacteria produce this protease or is moreso certain types, gram positive or negative for example?

 

[Daffodil]

Lol ... yup. I have it on my website

http://www.superbugskill.com/papers/evirs.pdf

@Elph68 I just discovered this article. Wow. i have 77% enteroccocus in my stool right now, and it is supposed to be ZERO. i thought this was due to the years of antibiotics, but....was it overgrowing before and just showing up now??? i did have IBS before..like most CFS patients...

 

[Daffodil]

by the way, demeirleir knows about all of this...he is 10 years ahead of lipkin!! the only thing is, you dont always know why he prescribes what he does...but he knows!

 

[Elph68]

@Elph68 do all guy bacteria produce this protease or is moreso certain types, gram positive or negative for example?

Hey Knackers .... Protease is a protein degrading enzyme and there are a vast variety of different ones, I have posted on other threads they have the ability to turn off the immune system ..... Furthermore, coeliac disease is a problem with protein, some people have problems with egg protein and other proteins of all types .... So my question is if people can develop issues from various proteins from food, couldn't bacteria proteins have a similar effect?

I reckon the answer is pretty obvious ......

 

[Elph68]

by the way, demeirleir knows about all of this...he is 10 years ahead of lipkin!! the only thing is, you dont always know why he prescribes what he does...but he knows!

This is true .... and a lot of his research comes from Dr Henry Butt from Bioscreen, here in Australia ......

Dr Butt was way ahead of everybody ......

 

[Justin30]

Has Dr. Butt published his work and his findings with regard to the microbiome and ME/CFS?

 

[Noellea77]

@Elph68 are you still taking bromelian for the protease issue and if so, how to you dose it? With meals or on an empty stomach ?

 

[Elph68]

Has Dr. Butt published his work and his findings with regard to the microbiome and ME/CFS?

He has .... but it has never been widely accepted .... He does a lot of presentation work now .... selling the story ...

Butt HL, Dunstan R, McGregor NR, Roberts Tk: Bacterial colonosis in patients with persistent fatigue. InProceedings of the AHMF international clinical and scientific conference. Sydney, Australia; 2001.

http://sacfs.asn.au/publications/talking_point/2000/2_jun/lecture_3.htm

http://iv.iiarjournals.org/content/23/4/621.full

http://novaholisticjournal.com/news/gut-bacteria-roles-differ-in-sexes
This article on Dr Butts research is REALLY interesting ....

http://www.academia.edu/11578244/CHAPTER_FIVE_Metabolism_in_Chronic_Fatigue_Syndrome

http://www.foodsmatter.com/conference_reports/articles/bsem-10-15-sugar.html#butt
This is the notes from a presentation he did last year

 

[Elph68]

@Elph68 are you still taking bromelian for the protease issue and if so, how to you dose it? With meals or on an empty stomach ?

Hi, I do ..... I take it before/after meals ....

If taken on an empty stomach, it is absorbed, taken with food, it helps with digestion.

I take it in 2 forms .... pure bromelain on an empty stomach to help with the bacterial problem ..... Digestive enzymes containing bromelain with food in order to help with digestion ...

Cheers.

 

[knackers323]

by the way, demeirleir knows about all of this...he is 10 years ahead of lipkin!! the only thing is, you dont always know why he prescribes what he does...but he knows!

Is he getting people well?